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Help needed: Omega "Seamaster De Ville" genuine or FAKE/refurbished?

  1. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 7, 2017

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    Dear all,

    I'm new here: I recently bought a vintage manual Omega Seamaster De Ville and - since I'm not an expert and I started to read about fake Omega watches here on the forum just after buying it - I'd like to have an opinion about its authenticity and real value.

    The seller said that dial is 100% original,"perfect", not refurbished or painted.To me it seems nearly perfect, maybe too much... of course, looking the dial very closely you can spot some minor signs that let me hope that it is original...

    The watch works perfectly and the glass has some little scratches here and there but I like it very much...

    On the back there is the Seamaster logo engraved and the reference 135019.

    Hoping I bought a good one... thank you very much for your kind help :)
     
    IMG_9723.JPG IMG_9724.JPG IMG_9732.JPG IMG_9734.JPG IMG_9735.JPG IMG_9737.JPG IMG_9738.JPG IMG_9739.JPG IMG_9740.JPG
    Edited Apr 8, 2017
  2. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 7, 2017

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  3. hoipolloi

    hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Apr 7, 2017

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    Dial looks repainted. This is how an original font looks like.

    20170407_164121.jpg
     
  4. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Apr 7, 2017

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  5. hoipolloi

    hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Apr 7, 2017

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  6. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    Thank you very much for your answers!

    The seller, when I asked, said "perfect, original NON REFURBISHED".

    Searching on the internet I found some different Seamaster logos: most of the differencies are on the "S" (more rounded or sharp) and on the "r" (longer like this one or in line with the other): http://markvletter.com/blog/omega-seamaster-st-135-0005-and-the-62-63-logo-change/

    I add some more photos and seller's description.

    Do you think it is at least original? :/

    Thank you for your help!
     
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    Edited Apr 8, 2017
  7. michael22

    michael22 Apr 8, 2017

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    The final "E" on ?DE VILLE" looks out of line.
     
  8. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    Also the "E" on this models seems a little offset (of course I'm not an expert or a collector, I just want to be sure of what I bought):

    https://www.chrono24.it/omega/seamaster-ladies-handwound--id5839303.htm

    https://www.chrono24.it/omega/seamaster-de-ville-automatic-in-acciaio-del-1963--id5243694.htm


    https://omegaforums.net/threads/wruw-today.567/page-751

    https://www.chrono24.it/omega/seamaster-deville-reference-165004--id5956580.htm


    https://www.instagram.com/p/BF3padVPZp0/

    http://www.europeanwatch.com/14982.html

    http://www.yorktime.com/shop/omega-seamaster-deville-1968/

    I hope at least it is an original Omega Seamaster DeVille, maybe with a refurbished dial, but authentic...
     
    Edited Apr 8, 2017
  9. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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  10. michael22

    michael22 Apr 8, 2017

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    Redial doesn't have to mean fake, but certainly means it is not original. Everything else may be good.

    Also, notice in Hoipolloi's example, the S of Seamaster is almost symmetrical top to bottom. Yours is smaller at the top than the bottom.
     
  11. michael22

    michael22 Apr 8, 2017

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  12. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Apr 8, 2017

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    Hate to disagree (respectfully) but if I were a betting man I'd put my money on the OP's watch being an original, un-refinished example. I came upon quite a few examples of this exact variant of 'Seamaster", including this one in the Omega database.

    https://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage-details/14716/

    The only other alternative I can see is if someone got hold of Omega factory dies, which I suppose is possible. The T Swiss Made T is spot on, too. Perhaps some of the resident experts could chime in.
     
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  13. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    That would be great.... I hope it!

    Also because the seller was nice with me and a lot of watches on his website are clearly selled as "refurbished", he had no motivation to sell it as "genuine", so that let me hope I bought a good one.
    But I asked here because I am not able to find that 135019 reference on Omega website, so I started to search on internet and I read about a lot of franken/fake Omega watches everywhere...

    For instance I would buy a black dial Seamaster De Ville, but it seems impossible to find an original one, it seems that are all repainted/refurbished.

    I am not able to open my watch and check inside, but if there are other photos that can help to establish if this Seamaster is authentic or not just let me know and I will post them :)

    Again, huge thanks to you all for your kind help!
     
  14. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Apr 8, 2017

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  15. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Apr 8, 2017

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    By the way, don't go by what I said about originality. I simply wanted to open it up for more discussion amongst those more experienced than I. I just have a hard time seeing the OP watch as a redial. If it is I'd like to see a rationale so I can continue learning.
     
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  16. hoipolloi

    hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Apr 8, 2017

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    This font was used in the 50's on early Seamaster bumpers then replaced by many other fonts (that you need to learn) into the 60's and 70's.
    20170408_080556.jpg

    and when you evaluate a dial you have to look at other things too.
    Omega never prints a dial with uneven minute markers like this.

    20170408_081037.jpg 20170408_080556.jpg
     
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  17. Gordon Heavyfoot

    Gordon Heavyfoot Apr 8, 2017

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    I understand that this font was used on earlier examples than the OP's, that's why I asked about redialing with old dies. It surely wasn't done freehand. I had noticed the markers too. Perhaps the dial was cleaned and the hardware removed and reinstalled. Maybe tiny redial gnomes are playing games with people like me who ask too many questions. I don't know. But as I said, I question because I like to learn. I like mysteries, especially when they're finally solved.
     
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  18. kingsrider

    kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Apr 8, 2017

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    Looks like the real deal to me. Lume dots are consistent in shape/size and color matches the hand lume. Serifs look good. Minute markers irregularity appears to be from distortion of the crystal. Older crystal. If it is a redial, in my opinion it is a good one.
     
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  19. kingsrider

    kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Apr 8, 2017

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  20. JazzBox

    JazzBox Apr 8, 2017

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    Thank you very much to you all!

    Hoping that my watch (in reality is my wife's watch, since I bought it for her) is genuine, I'm happy to see that this little mistery is interesting :)

    As side note, thinking about what said kingsrider, i can add that for the last photos I used a "macro" lens on my iPhone, so some distortion could occour easily: maybe the "E" is also offset because of the macro lens.

    At this point I'm really curious to know more opinions possible: so, if I understand well, the watch should be genuine, and the worst case scenario is that the dial could be repainted?

    I'm starting to love this investigation :)