So, in light of the recent release of the Paradise Papers and the Panama Papers last year, is anyone still feeling morally compromised if they toy with the idea of avoiding or minimising duties and importation taxes when they buy a watch from overseas (or even interstate if you are in the US)? As some commentators have said, it’s seems to be one rule for millionaires, billionaires and multinationals, and another for the rest of us?

https://www.icij.org/investigations...-and-piggy-banks-of-the-wealthiest-1-percent/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...e-papers-and-what-is-the-firm-appleby/9075640

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-41880153

 

Those with no conscience are wealthy enough to avoid punishment in the unlikely event they’ll ever get found out. Then there’s the rest of us.

 

One of the things in the US as it relates to watches is sales tax. In the states, when you buy locally tax is taken at time of purchase. When you buy out of state, depending on merchant, you do not pay sales tax at time of purchase. For purchases out of state where you dont pay sales tax at time of purchase, you would declare it when you file taxes at the end of the year. So as you can see, there are some that chose to buy out of state, and do not declare it on their tax filings.

Another thing that I've heard of from someone and he said that in the past, one of the things people would do is, car tourism. You buy say, a Porsche, and you drive it from the factory to the port, because it's driven it's not a new car and you pay less. I do not know if that's still possible, but it's some of the things people do to avoid paying more.

 

I’ve heard people do that with brand new BMWs but the reason was not related to taxes but rather because the apparently they give you a factory tour or s special course or something like that in factory in Germany.

I would love to be able to do that in the the Omega factory.

 

The duty on a watch I'd buy is not that much. And in addition to the fine, it would endanger my global entry card.

 

I have always thought about it but the cost of being caught has always stopped me from doing it.
In Australia we pay 10% plus what the government calls
"DOCUMENTARY IMPORT DECLARATION PROCESSING CHARGE" of approx. $50.

 

Euro Delivery...
BMW,Volvo and Porsche offer it. Not sure about MB or Audi.

Basically shipping costs less then the delivery charge, no sales tax, no car to rent in Europe.

Basically if your buying a new car and planning a European vacation, you can save some money. It’s not exactly cheaper to buy via euro delivery and then fly to pick it up, then wait the month or so for it to be delivered to your nearest dealer.

On the other hand if your doing a custom order it can make the process a tad easier as you can bypass BMWNA restrictions a little easier, aka the old individual program which bypassing BMWNA makes it way easier.

 

Interestingly, my last three purchases this year have been from overseas, and without doing absolutely anything to influence the shipping or importation process, two came through without having to pay GST and the sender declared a lower value on the third, resulting in me paying less than expected. I certainly was not jumping to change the outcome. I have zero guilt now that I have read some of the outcomes of the ICIJ investigations.

 

I purchased from a AD in Berlin, and received a VAT payment when I flew home, it reduced my cost by nearly 1K AUD, I can live with myself......

 

I'd be surprised if most people buying an expensive watch hadn't thought about how to make it less expensive.

Also, there is a difference between avoiding tax yourself and putting some of your money in an offshore investment fund, but most people won't understand that. Nor will they care that the Queen didn't click the "move funds" button on the investment website personally.

 

i do it for purchases from outside EU and i do it for sales if somebody asks as well. just state a lower value invoice to avoid VAT tax. and yes i can live with myself. 19% added tax its too much

 

Just because some rich morally corrupt people do the tax evasion actively and get away wit it, does not justify it in general.
It just shows that the system is broken when people feel there is a too high taxation and turning them to avoid tax payments altogether rather than helping society with their tax payments (how much of the payments is wasted is an entirely different discussion).

 

Agree 100%. I bought my FOiS a couple of years ago in Austria because the Euro was weak and the price was better than in the US. I got the Austrian VAT back. I thought about not declaring the watch when I returned to the states, but decided I should, just in case. Although it was a little hassle (mainly because the customs officer had to look through several books to figure out what to charge) and took about 30 minutes, the final charge was less than 3% of the watch cost, so about half of what I'd have paid in sales tax.

A fine would have been a lot more than that.

 

I believe this can be condensed to "Two wrongs do not make a right."

 

That is probably correct, but there is such a power imbalance that the right of one does not make up for the wrong by the other. The societal moral and absolute rules do not work in a system that is fundamentally broken because one side is not playing the game.

The point of my post was not so petty as to encourage anyone to flaunt the rules (which most of us do on occasions, to a greater or lesser extent anyway), but to highlight the vastness of the moral void. For the record, however, to the best of my knowledge nothing is revealed in the Paradise or Panama Papers about cross-border watch purchases.

 

It's not about making up for anything - it's about doing what's right.

To answer the question you posed in your OP, if you feel that others gaming the system gives you the license to cheat on your taxes, underdeclare goods being imported, or whatever that's your business, but I don't feel the same. If everyone took your view that moral rules don't apply to them anymore, then that leads to a pretty dark place.

If you don't think the system you have is fair, then work to change the system.

 

Its perfectly ok to purchase a watch duty free and save on local taxes. I have done this with new watches in both Paris and Frankfurt. In each case the documentation required my passport and was quite legal. One was a Rolex GMT and one was a RG JLC, so the tax savings were considerable.

I'm happy to pay duties and fees on inbound watches. Our civilization runs on rules. If everyone avoided taxes we'd be in very serious trouble. (See Greece)

 

Washington doesn't have a personal state income tax, but still has a use tax. It's widely ignored, except for motor vehicles because the state catches them when they're registered. I expect large companies that are in the public eye make sure they pay their use tax, and of course state agencies pay use tax on the things that they buy.

 

I take your point and acknowledge your standing here, but I think you are deducing more about me than my posting of the question states or implies. I DO NOT "feel that others gaming the system gives [me] the license to cheat on [my] taxes..." and my question does not state or infer that. My question was:

That is NOT a statement of my views, but a question about others' views. This is an open discussion forum and sitting here listening to news reports on the radio I was curious whether other members felt angry and disenfranchised by the revelations revealed in the Paradise Papers. I (perhaps clumsily) attempted to link it to watches because this is after all a watch forum. I will be more literal in my posting of questions in the future.

As a forum member in high standing your opinions are well regarded, and you are influential, both positively and negatively. Therefore, you have a great responsibility to post accurately. While I admit I am not as strict about rules as you declare yourself to be, I do not wish in this forum to be tarred with the views that you have incorrectly ascribed to me, so I calmly and respectfully request that you correct what you have said.