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Has anyone any idea what Speedmaster this dial is from?

john_coburg
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It's not the prettiest anyone's seen, but it has me foxed. It came attached to a 3991xxxx movement, suggesting 1979, which feels very late for a stepped dial, but perhaps it wasn't brough into the world attached to this movement... It would appear to be from some version of a 145.022, given it fits an 861, but has an unusual combination of long-lume indices and painted Omega logo, meaning i can't categorize it. The Omega logo looks 'fat' and hence 70s, again, out of place with the long lume indices - which are filthy enough to surely not be relumed?
Has anyone any ideas?
Thank you vm.
DSC_2378.JPG DSC_2393.JPG DSC_2394.JPG
 
Peter_from_NL
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Probably better quality pics needed? End of have a bit strange of a “hook”. But I am not sure. Others will know this better.
41A0B583-44EF-47B1-B2CD-5D13574613F1.jpeg
 
john_coburg
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Thank you. The feet look like the smaller 861 type, and the painted 'modern' Omega logo must surely date it to the 70s, but the long lume indices are the outlier here. I thought they only came on 321s, or 145.012s & earlier. Not sure if anything can be gleaned by the 'Speedmaster' font or the positioning of the 'T Swiss Made T'.
Few more photos attached, but my macro photography isn't up to much. Will try and take a few more later.

DSC_2395.JPG DSC_2392.JPG DSC_2378.JPG
 
Peter_from_NL
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If I take my Moonwatch only book it seems to fit the C1. Medium S - Step Dial (1969-1974) but these have indeed the short markers. No step dial earlier with long markers.

So a relume where the old long markers were applied perhaps?

Some real specialists need to step in!
 
john_coburg
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I hear you, but the lume looks aged - and in a 'bad' way, rather than the 'pretty' way that relumes tend to go for.
 
Seaborg
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I'm sure I've seen these dials in previous threads somewhere here.
If my memory is correct, it was identified as an early 145.022-69 service dial.
The other way around also exists for 321 movements, i.e. pre-pro dials with AML and short indexes.
 
john_coburg
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Hmmm - but shouldn't the original 145.022-69 (and indeed all 145.022s) have short lume indices? I can't really see what those long lume indices are doing on this dial, service or otherwise.
 
Foo2rama
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It’s a 321 service dial. Late 80’s batch is my guess from the font. (Too lazy to pull out MWO)

long indices, step dial, wrong font for pre-74 on Speedmaster.

321 service dials where made in small batches and there is a lot of variations in them. There is no such thing as an 861 service dial. (Yet) as 861 service dials are just regular production dials at that time.
 
john_coburg
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Thank you Foo2rama.
But it was attached to an 861 movement though (which was actually what i bought it for, the dial just 'came with it')
DSC_2381.JPG
Edited:
 
Foo2rama
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john_coburg john_coburg
Thank you Foo2rama.
But it was attached to an 861 movement though (which was actually what i bought it for, the dial just 'came with it')
DSC_2381.JPG
dial feet can be modified, its easier to cut down a 321 to fit an 861 then to go the other way. Its not exactly uncommon for this to have happened a few show up a year.

and thanks to @Archer for this example.

proxy.jpg
 
john_coburg
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Thank you. I hear you, and have heard of this 'feet cutting' business, but it doesn't look like that happened to this one, from the feet. There would be evidence of work around the feet, and i don't see any. The feet have that 'narrow' bit at the bottom, just like in the 861 above (very helpful photo from @Archer ). They could have been sliced off and replaced i suppose.
 
Foo2rama
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john_coburg john_coburg
Thank you. I hear you, and have heard of this 'feet cutting' business, but it doesn't look like that happened to this one, from the feet. There would be evidence of work around the feet, and i don't see any. The feet have that 'narrow' bit at the bottom, just like in the 861 above (very helpful photo from @Archer ). They could have been sliced off and replaced i suppose.
You understand that no 861 dials where made with long indices. Its been modified, if any decent watchmaker does the work and you would not be able to tell it was modified. There was never a step dial with that font on it. Also those dial feet may not be indicative of later production on service 321's.

Additionally the font of the speedmaster almost looks like a C2 or earlier dial, but the tail of the "r" is sitting to high. This is another sign of a service dial. Again there are no 861 service dials. Service dials where made for 321's in small batches so you see mixtures of fonts and attributes on them and rarely do they match. The reason is the tritium had a shelf life of 5 years on a watch, only a small number of 321's would come back to omega for service and have the dials replaced. So every few months Omega would order a small batch of these, and they all have some variation on them. In fact there is even a short indices AML floating round out there.
Edited:
 
Ron_W
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According to Speedmaster101 there were long indices stepped dials for 145.022 68 and 861`s but these have AM Logo ;

Speedmaster 145.022-68 with a 26m serial AML long indices stepped.jpg


Short r as well, so maybe they just dropped the AML on later production or service dials ?
 
Ron_W
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Both have a cal 861 so the feet must have been changed, not without risk....
 
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