Guidance on GMT Master II A Serial purchase

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pseikotick

·Feb 25, 2020

I own a couple of Daytonas and a Sub but have never owned a GMT. I'll post a photo of the one I'm near to buying, and I know it won't be sufficient, but maybe some of you in the know can give me some guidance. I do like the Pepsi dials, but the more understated Coke dial is my favorite. It's an A serial (maybe 2000) 16710 with the lug holes, box but no papers (another topic for another thread to understand how so many modern Rolex owners didn't keep every shred of paper and card that came with their watches. I don't get that.) It does have the original bracelet and all seems to be fairly clean. The case does not appear overly polished. The price is going to be right at 8000, which is about the best I can find for a nice example without full set. I know fakes are everywhere, but were there high quality fakes of GMTs from 2000? I remember everything fake ticking like a quartz with display backs at that time. Any advice about what to be careful of or look for is appreciated. Thanks for any help in advance.

Edited: Feb 26, 2020

 

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Togri v. 2.0

·Feb 26, 2020·Wow! Custom title... cool

Looks legit enough but I wouldn’t buy it from that photo alone. Plenty of good examples out there so I would only buy if I could see all lugs from above and from each end and side shots as well.

 

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onthedial

·Feb 26, 2020

@pseikotick
If it's an A series the production year is more likely 1999. "Swiss Made" dial is correct. It's nearly impossible to assess the condition of the case based on the pic you uploaded--it's badly focused and taken at an odd angle. For instance, the upper crown guard looks totally ground down, yet it could be attributed to the unfortunate angle. Make sure the bracelet clasp code is correct. I would say the price is approx. $1K under market for an A series in good condition without box/papers. If the watch checks out you've found a good buy.
Could you upload some higher quality images?

 

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ICONO

·Feb 26, 2020

Crystal looks to have a scratch ... and maybe a couple of nibbles on the lower edge

Would like to see, sharp ’hi res’ images of the lugs…?

 

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janice&fred

·Feb 26, 2020

pseikotick

Sorry. It's an emotional topic.

would you like some tissue? 😁

 

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Dan S

·Feb 26, 2020

@ICONO definitely appears to be right about the scratch on the crystal, or maybe even a crack. That will cost you something to replace, and if you don't have access to an independent watchmaker with a parts account, you might need to have it serviced to get a new crystal. Obviously not a deal breaker, but an expense.

 

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killer67

·Feb 27, 2020

Crystal is 250-300 new so well worth replacing. It would drive me crazy

 

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Gasman

·Feb 28, 2020

If you fancy a change to a pepsi insert don’t buy off eBay or anywhere with extortionate prices just send it to RSC St. James in London. That’s what I did they replaced my pepsi with a coke for £55.00 and also returned the original. Now I have a choice but prefer the coke.

 

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Togri v. 2.0

·Feb 28, 2020·Wow! Custom title... cool

Well it is certainly not in mint condition but looks ok. It looks a bit like one of the lugs has been polished a bit more than the others as it looks thinner. Could also be the angle.

 

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Dan S

·Feb 28, 2020

For really detailed questions like this, the best approach is to find a bunch of other A-series watches and look at the dials. That will help your comfort level more than looking at a table or reference information from a book or website. HQ Milton is very convenient for Rolex because they archive all of their previous sales. So just go search for 16710 1999 watches, select the ones that are A-series, and look at the dial. I think you'll find dozens and they will all be SWISS MADE. Most of the listings will also have clasp info.

Edit: here is the search link I mentioned https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/search?q=16710 1999

 

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Dan S

·Feb 28, 2020

pseikotick

Thanks. I was doing just as you suggest about an hour ago. I checked chrono24 and ebay listings and found that maybe half of the A serials had the SWISS MADE dial. The serial is A934,xxx, and I saw a few that were A7xx,xxx serials with the SWISS MADE dial and solid end links, both characteristics attributed to post 2000 watches, so it seem fairly clear that there was bleed over from 1999 to 2000 with regard to the dial, end links, and clasp. I can see why some only buy new when it comes to Rolex. This was my first used experience, so I wanted to get it right. Thanks again for all the good info and suggestions. I'll have it authenticated at the AD on Tuesday and get a good look at the case.

I like HQ Milton as the first place for this type of research, because you can find a bunch of listings all in one place in the same format. And also, you know that Jacek vetted all of the listings, and he knows a hell of a lot more than you and me. You can't have the same level of confidence about any given eBay or C24 listing.

As an aside, generally speaking Rolex doesn't make transitions on January 1st of a given year. All of these change-dates are approximate, and usually with some overlap. If it's January 1st and they still have some SWISS MADE dials left over, they are going to use them. They're Swiss after all. 😉

Edited: Feb 28, 2020

 

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janice&fred

·Mar 3, 2020

pseikotick

never polished

 

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killer67

·Mar 3, 2020

Congrats @pseikotick can you send a head on shot of the insert?

 

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killer67

·Mar 3, 2020

pseikotick

Thanks. I was doing just as you suggest about an hour ago. I checked chrono24 and ebay listings and found that maybe half of the A serials had the SWISS MADE dial. The serial is A934,xxx, and I saw a few that were A7xx,xxx serials with the SWISS MADE dial and solid end links, both characteristics attributed to post 2000 watches, so it seem fairly clear that there was bleed over from 1999 to 2000 with regard to the dial, end links, and clasp. I can see why some only buy new when it comes to Rolex. This was my first used experience, so I wanted to get it right. Thanks again for all the good info and suggestions. I'll have it authenticated at the AD on Tuesday and get a good look at the case.

I tend to see A5 and up with "Swiss Made"

 

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janice&fred

·Mar 4, 2020

pseikotick

Rolex AD gave it a clean bill of health.

oh I agree. there's nothing odd about that watch and I also believe it has it's original finish.

 

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speedydownunder

·Mar 4, 2020

Congrats! Lovely piece and agree with your Coke v Pepsi sentiments.