- Posts
- 5,317
- Likes
- 24,329
Spacefruit
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderMy best buy of 2020
There is a history in Rolex circles of the appearance of non production dials, which have been attributed to being sample dials, specifically singer sample dials. These samples were circulated by salesmen in books, and were without dial feet.There is plenty to find online, but here is one link.
Some have made their way into built up Rolex watches and have generated considerable interest and discussion as well as concern. Recently several Rolex's have been sold at auction for strong prices with non standard dials. Several Tudor Homeplate dials have appeared with black instead of grey backgrounds. I am not saying they are samples, but showing there is considerable interest in these rare dials even with uncertain origins or history.
So far, we have not seen much of this with Speedmasters. Until now.
This watch, the grey dialed speedmaster was offered by WOK in July 2020. It was clearly stated that this is a sample dial without feet, fitted prior to the sale by the vendor to a watch that may or may not be contemporary to the dial. It was paired in the sale with another sample dialed watch, a 2998, with a blue-grey soleil dial. The blue grey dial was to me far less interesting, as it was similar to the original Blue Soleil dials that have Extracts and are believed to be original from Omega. And of course the originals have the added bonus of Dial Feet. The blue grey in the auction was not a nice watch, it had almost no charm at all. Unlike mine, which is shown here next the grey. Note this blue grey is lustrous and clearly attractive.
When I saw the two watches on the cover of the auction catalog, I thought that the light grey dial was a special thing. It was quite unlike any other dial I have seen in a speedmaster in terms of its body colour and also the fact that it has black hour markers. Other light coloured dials have been seen, the cream of the Italian special edition, the white of the Alaska and also in the prototype Alaska (reference here). Here is a white dial I made out of a loose dial from Watchco.
We can clearly see its a different thing altogether. A different colour.
So I set about thinking about just what would I be buying.
First I have to see where the money is. The watch itself is a 105.002.
This is no cheap watch, although I am inclined to think the dealer used whatever he had to hand. I am still waiting the result of an extract.
I am assuming the movement is for a 105002 but I am prepared to take a hit if it isn’t.
The case and bezel are fair to good, and the watch came on a 7912 bracelet, but with incorrect shaved down 516 endlinks. The case back you can see has good definition.
So in my mind I figured that the watch without the dial might be worth 10,000. That means I could allocate the balance to the dial, and therefore the risk. So in my mind worst case is that the dial is worthless, but I still have a 105002 worth around 10,000.
What could go wrong? Well my first concern is that the dial is but one of many lurking around in old Singer dial books. My fear still is that as a result of the sale, five or six might come out of the woodwork and start appearing in auctions. It hasn’t happened yet, but to be honest if it is going to happen it will be in the next two years.
My second concern is that I was buying a put together watch with a dial of uncertain value. So I went with my back up thinking, which is to ask my self, do I like it? Would I want it at all? The answer is a clear yes. I have been around speedmasters for years, and I find this dial quite magical. I love it.
My third concern is physical integrity. The dial is without feet, and so is simply placed on the movement. It is in fact loose - if had dial pads, then the adhesive is not longer holding. So I don’t want to post it to Simon Freese, with all the post joggling it will go through - no it will have to wait. Also to think about was the integrity of the dial surface finish itself. In that I am not worried it is solid, and in pretty good shape. The other dial in the auction was not in very good condition at all, and showed much more damage from being loose.
When it came to the auction, there was zero interest in it. I was fully aware I was the only bidder, and that if I really was a cool customer I should have let it pass, and approach the auction house after the sale, but I was not in the room, I could not be 100% sure, and so I bought it at the auction, against the house I am sure. But thats the thing with auctions, you have to step up when you really like something otherwise you are just one of those whingers with a collection of watches even they dont like that much, but damn, they were cheap.
According to the auction house, the hand choice was taken by the vendor after looking at the 1960's racing dial's hand layout, with contrasting Chronograph hands to the time hands.
Bezel is a fair DO90
Case back is good - my photos show more scratches that there are really due to glancing light.
Sides show a typical polishing brushing that these watches seem to end up with.
I have seen worse, and certainly the blue grey in the sale had much less case definition.
As for the future of this watch, I shall carry it by hand to Simon for a service, and to come up with a solution to secure the dial. Although Simon has attached several dial feet, the risk is too great to try it here. Pads will be the option.
Then I will just enjoy it. As to the value, I honestly think I got a bargain. Unless suddenly half a dozen all show up at auction!
Here is a final shot with an Ed White.
There is a history in Rolex circles of the appearance of non production dials, which have been attributed to being sample dials, specifically singer sample dials. These samples were circulated by salesmen in books, and were without dial feet.There is plenty to find online, but here is one link.
Some have made their way into built up Rolex watches and have generated considerable interest and discussion as well as concern. Recently several Rolex's have been sold at auction for strong prices with non standard dials. Several Tudor Homeplate dials have appeared with black instead of grey backgrounds. I am not saying they are samples, but showing there is considerable interest in these rare dials even with uncertain origins or history.
So far, we have not seen much of this with Speedmasters. Until now.
This watch, the grey dialed speedmaster was offered by WOK in July 2020. It was clearly stated that this is a sample dial without feet, fitted prior to the sale by the vendor to a watch that may or may not be contemporary to the dial. It was paired in the sale with another sample dialed watch, a 2998, with a blue-grey soleil dial. The blue grey dial was to me far less interesting, as it was similar to the original Blue Soleil dials that have Extracts and are believed to be original from Omega. And of course the originals have the added bonus of Dial Feet. The blue grey in the auction was not a nice watch, it had almost no charm at all. Unlike mine, which is shown here next the grey. Note this blue grey is lustrous and clearly attractive.
When I saw the two watches on the cover of the auction catalog, I thought that the light grey dial was a special thing. It was quite unlike any other dial I have seen in a speedmaster in terms of its body colour and also the fact that it has black hour markers. Other light coloured dials have been seen, the cream of the Italian special edition, the white of the Alaska and also in the prototype Alaska (reference here). Here is a white dial I made out of a loose dial from Watchco.
We can clearly see its a different thing altogether. A different colour.
So I set about thinking about just what would I be buying.
First I have to see where the money is. The watch itself is a 105.002.
This is no cheap watch, although I am inclined to think the dealer used whatever he had to hand. I am still waiting the result of an extract.
I am assuming the movement is for a 105002 but I am prepared to take a hit if it isn’t.
The case and bezel are fair to good, and the watch came on a 7912 bracelet, but with incorrect shaved down 516 endlinks. The case back you can see has good definition.
So in my mind I figured that the watch without the dial might be worth 10,000. That means I could allocate the balance to the dial, and therefore the risk. So in my mind worst case is that the dial is worthless, but I still have a 105002 worth around 10,000.
What could go wrong? Well my first concern is that the dial is but one of many lurking around in old Singer dial books. My fear still is that as a result of the sale, five or six might come out of the woodwork and start appearing in auctions. It hasn’t happened yet, but to be honest if it is going to happen it will be in the next two years.
My second concern is that I was buying a put together watch with a dial of uncertain value. So I went with my back up thinking, which is to ask my self, do I like it? Would I want it at all? The answer is a clear yes. I have been around speedmasters for years, and I find this dial quite magical. I love it.
My third concern is physical integrity. The dial is without feet, and so is simply placed on the movement. It is in fact loose - if had dial pads, then the adhesive is not longer holding. So I don’t want to post it to Simon Freese, with all the post joggling it will go through - no it will have to wait. Also to think about was the integrity of the dial surface finish itself. In that I am not worried it is solid, and in pretty good shape. The other dial in the auction was not in very good condition at all, and showed much more damage from being loose.
When it came to the auction, there was zero interest in it. I was fully aware I was the only bidder, and that if I really was a cool customer I should have let it pass, and approach the auction house after the sale, but I was not in the room, I could not be 100% sure, and so I bought it at the auction, against the house I am sure. But thats the thing with auctions, you have to step up when you really like something otherwise you are just one of those whingers with a collection of watches even they dont like that much, but damn, they were cheap.
According to the auction house, the hand choice was taken by the vendor after looking at the 1960's racing dial's hand layout, with contrasting Chronograph hands to the time hands.
Bezel is a fair DO90
Case back is good - my photos show more scratches that there are really due to glancing light.
Sides show a typical polishing brushing that these watches seem to end up with.
I have seen worse, and certainly the blue grey in the sale had much less case definition.
As for the future of this watch, I shall carry it by hand to Simon for a service, and to come up with a solution to secure the dial. Although Simon has attached several dial feet, the risk is too great to try it here. Pads will be the option.
Then I will just enjoy it. As to the value, I honestly think I got a bargain. Unless suddenly half a dozen all show up at auction!
Here is a final shot with an Ed White.
Edited:
