Hi OF,

For sale today I have a Jaeger Lecoultre Solid 14k Gold Square Art Deco Watch c. 1951.





It has been recently serviced and is keeping excellent time. Dial, movement, crown, hands, are all original to the best of my knowledge, and are signed correctly. You can see below in photos, the movement is absolutely stunning.

Asking: $1250 USD firm, including PayPal fees and tracked shipping. I feel it's a fair price for a rare piece from an iconic brand, the same as what I paid for it 6 months ago. Servicing was NOT cheap haha... but the movement looks stunning afterwards now as you can see!

Email offers to: [email protected]

Measurements: It's at home and I'm currently working interstate so I will re-confirm later this week, but it is roughly 33mm wide, 38mm long, 7.5mm thick. Small but still definitely the size of a classic a vintage mens piece!

Have sold several watches in the last year on OF and on ebay:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/hrobi-is-a-scholar-gentleman-and-exceptional-seller.53368/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/hrobi-a-highly-recommended-seller.48693/

http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/hrobrobi

Thanks!

 

BUMP!

 

Is it redialled?

 

As mentioned above in the listing - to the best of my knowledge this isn't a redial and is original. I bought it from a very well respected UK dealer Ian (https://itsawindup.com/). Those who have bought from him before will recognise the photo - I asked him the same question before I bought it, as it looks obviously mint. He assured me that in his assessment, it was fully original and had just been cleaned.

Take from that what you will - you'll notice on Ian's website he has for sale/has sold very clean and legit pieces, and always points out re-dials very clearly if stated.

Happy to share email trail for interested buyers

 

actually I just found it pretty easily:

 

Bit of nitpicking, but this is a LeCoultre watch instead of a Jaeger-LeCoultre. For sure they are (closely) related, but none-the-less they go by different nomenclature and command different prices among collectors. Mind you, I'm certainly not saying you priced it wrong.

 

I am sorry, but that is a redial. Look at the less than sharp lines and how the inner quadrant is situated unevenly between the indices. Also, the logo is written clumsily.

...And if you read through the original seller's reply again you'll note that he dodges the question completely. He doesn't answer if it has been repainted, only that the finish of the dial is correct - which it may well be, but all the text has been repainted on.


It's a great looking watch, and given the square case I'll bet it wears nicely, too.

 

Fair point - I've found the vast majority of people selling vintage 'lecoultre' watches do list them as 'Jaeger-lecoultre' since they were identical to the JLC watches of the era (to my knowledge) but were just labelled 'lecoultre' because they were assembled in the US and had to have a 'different name' to avoid certain taxes. Vacheron Lecoultre even? Not sure about the history there and the association beyond a facade for tax purposes...

 

Thanks for the feedback - it does wear very nicely!

I disagree on your assessment on the response - I think the dealer's answer to my question is very direct. "factory original case, dial, and movement" doesn't really leave very much for imagination. The dealer does sometimes sell re-dials, but states it very clearly in descriptions and, as mentioned, has an excellent reputation.

As per the dial - I also looked into this a lot before I bought it. I agree that it looks sloppy, in particular the 'C' sits very much over the 'O'. However at a period (early 50s) where lecoultre had huge variation in its logos, you can definitely find several practically identical examples of this logo printed, including details such as the smallish 'L' and very scrappy looking 'R'. See photos below. 'SWISS' is also not printed perfectly - as are many watches in this era.

I also agree that the dial orientation isn't perfect, but again - I think it's quite typical for watches of this era (1951 and earlier) to have imperfections. Look at the last 2 photos below - for a watches that are definitely original JLC, there are SO many inconsistencies. The weight/thickness of lines are completely not symmetrical, and fonts are not perfectly horizontal. Frankly, you can find Vacheron and Pateks from this era that have imperfect dials.

But hey, I'm far from a JLC expert, I just would like to think I've investigated this watch before I purchased it 6 months ago. I think ad-hoc opinions are great from seasoned collectors, but likewise - I've had some vintage Omegas I've posted on this forum for feedback, where literally over 10 people have responded with "definitely a redial" but it's turned out to be 100% legit.

Logos:







non-perfect dials:

 

^ refer to post above

 

I am sorry, but your post doesn't convince me.

IMO, several of those watches you've pictured are redials too... Which would explain a lot, for instance
1) the missing minute track
2) the lack of dial patina in a worn case
3) the lumed hands on a non-lume dial
4) the completely blatant redial(!)


I'd rather take a look at these:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-mid-50ish.21390/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/fan...tic-arabic-dial-with-original-wood-box.20263/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/fin...-jumbo-memovox-on-jb-champion-bracelet.19168/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-memovox.4219/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/red...rm-memovox-stunning-dial-signed-crowns.27363/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vin...-12a-circa-1950-serviced-with-warranty.24195/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-lecoultre-power-reserve-bumper.37711/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-lecoultre.35989/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-powermatic.29680/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-memovox-tuxedo-dial.53391/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/reduced-lecoultre-powermatic-us-version-jaeger-lecoultre.48108/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-lecoultre-circa-1950-solid-14k.54331/

Or even my own:



All of these are as old or older than yours. Most of them are in very good condition where dial and case condition are alike. None have a clumsy dial.

EDIT: Have a go at taking close-ups of the dial. That might prove either of us wrong.

Not on OF.

You are either lying or don't understand the meaning of "literally". I've looked through your posts.

Literally TWO members openly called your finds redials, both members were new here at the time. In one of the posts I had responded to you, suggesting that you use the sales forum to find a good watch - one of the reasons I did that was because how members here present their watches, ie not as a Jaeger-LeCoultre when it isn't one.


In the past I have had less than succesful attempts at pointing out flaws/errors in listings when contacting members by PM, so now I'll just write them in the sales post instead. I won't comment on price, though

AND, if I am wrong I'll be the first to say that I'm truly sorry - which I will be - and retract everything instantly. I am not out to ruin anything for sellers, I am out to help potential buyers.

 

Look - I understand you have no agenda and are not 'out to get me' - but I don't really understand the logic of "the completely blatant redial(!)"...

The 3 dials I've shown pictures of have the exact same logo. Look at each letter, they are exactly the same. The spacing between the letters is the same. I agree the hands on the third are not original - that does not detract from my argument. The logo is an exact copy across 4 separate watches. The chances of being able to get this reproduced via a, quote, 'clumsily written repaint' are close to zero. Sure - this could have been a small Lecoultre 'stamp' that someone has made - but how does that argument not apply to your JLC? Every single watch you just linked above has a slightly different logo to the one on yours - by that logic, how do you know you don't have a re-dial? Other than "I just know". You seem hell bent on proving this watch I'm listing is a re-dial - based on nothing more than "you think it is"?

You have to understand how frustrating this is for someone trying to use a sales forum online. This has been a great community to contribute to, but frankly there's no point in me listing anything for sale (not that you should care) if they're being labelled as re-dials based on 'opinion' not rooted in evidence. For example, the second last photo I linked is 100% original, and to me looks like you would define it as a 'clumsy redial' based on your above factors. I'm not sure how this investigation is happening.

On the other points:
- there exist many JLC's of this era without minutes tracks?
- dial patina... dial and case look visibly worn
- I agree the hands are not original, doesn't detract from the logo

All in all though, you're not going to change your mind - I give up haha. it's been real OF!

 

Does this watch look good to you:

https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/...d41821365d80be7a63a4c7c668f4e89ef68:500354642

Every time there is a significant difference in how the dial is presented and the state of the case, you'll need to be suspicious. In this case, have a go at comparing it with other Powermatics that are presented for sale in the links I've provided - and compare the state of them.

You do realise that a huge number of redialed Omegas can be identified that way, right? Have a look at the serial redialers selling crap Omegas - they also have matching logos. Having a logo that is similar to the one on another specimen does simply not prove originality. Other factors, such as quality of print and how the watch as a whole is presented must be considered too.

...Have a look again. I just opened three of the links I put in and found the exact match. The key here is that all three watches are in very good condition with light, even patina that matches on both dial, movement and case.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-powermatic.29680/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/reduced-lecoultre-powermatic-us-version-jaeger-lecoultre.48108/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/lecoultre-powermatic.29680/

But in a nutshell; no - I can't say for certain that they aren't redials. For all I know, they could have been recased, been relumed and the movement swapped.

That's the only one you posted that I have a strong feeling could be original. It is also finished better than all the others you've posted - despite appearing to be a watch that is around 10-15 years older than yours.




Oh, and...




Here's a watch being sold the guy you bought yours from:

https://itsawindup.com/watches/jaeg...-white-gold-art-deco-gents-vintage-watch-1964

Nice logo on that one too

 

Saaaay that professionally restored dial looks an awful lot like some of the above ones. We might have a serial redialler on the loose.

Great
work

 

I hope I am not coming across as wanting to beat a dead horse for as long as possible, but after having spent a few minutes at the online store that Hrobi bought this from, I feel that I ought to warn others - that place is bad.

Nearly all the watches are redialed, but it seems to be completely random whether or not they are advertised as such.

Add to that the ridiculous amount of bullshit about the watches and overembellished descriptions, it makes for a nauseating read.

https://itsawindup.com/watches/omega-14k-gold-filled-vintage-gents-automatic-bumper-watch-1952


I have no idea why he does this, but I guess it makes those advertised as original seem more authentic? I am sure Hrobi isn't the only one fooled by him

 

My oh my.. have you reached out to the dealer, Hrobi?