Forum lurker needing some assistance with a possible purchase, ref. 2383

Groenn · Jul 10, 2015

Hello all!

First off, I would like to tank you all for taking time to help us newbies not get totally robbed with our first vintage watch 😉

I keep finding nice timepieces, but I always visit the forum and learn something new, and then I have to discard the watch I found due to some newly gained knowledge regarding some aspect of the watch (usually regarding redials).

This time, I cannot find anything myself. As my knowledge has not yet turned to wisdom, I could use some help!

Info on the watch from the seller:
- Dial not refinished
- ref. 2383
- Caliber 332
- Man. year 1947.
- Papers/box: No
- Price: 1300 CHF.
- Condition: 2 (good)

From what i see, the watch is too good of a condition not to have been redone. I cannot find the dial on any other pictures, so I cannot authenticate it myself.

If someone can help, I would like to know:
- Is it a good buy? Worth the money?
- Is the dial original? I find it too pristine for the price and not being redone.
- Can you find any problems with it 😗 ?

Hope you guys can help!

Tony C. · Jul 10, 2015

I'm not very familiar with that reference, but the crown is a poor (meaning inappropriate) replacement. It may be OK beyond that.

gatorcpa · Jul 10, 2015

The watch presents well. My guess is that there was some extensive work done on it at one time, but it was all done as correctly as possible. Not sure if the dial is original or a nice redial. Would need to see it close up.

I believe that this is a Ref. 2585, not a 2383. Omega shows the 2585 as having the cal. 332 movement, and the 2383 as having a manual winding 30mm movement.

http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage-watches-database?ref=15755

http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage-watches-database?ref=14888

You might be able to find a correct crown for the 2585. Here is some information on that:

http://www.boley.de/en/case-parts/omega/4764?search=2585

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ome cs#2585&submit=Search

$1,400 for a non-chronometer bumper movement Omega, even in this condition (if all original), is a very high price here in the US. A good one should go for about half that.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

Geordie · Jul 10, 2015

http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage-watches-database?ref=19741
Watch looks ok but as Tony said crown is wrong.
Very smart watch but overpriced imo. You can do better with a chunk of money like that
£900 = $1400 = 1300 CHF

Groenn · Jul 10, 2015

Thanks for the replies! I agree about the crown.
I guess I should start looking more at ebay and private sellers and less at chrono24. I did find a great deal of comfort in the fact that it was legitimate businesses. I am usually way too sceptical when buying from private sellers. Especially when its across national borders.

Back to scouring the internet!

Matty01 · Jul 10, 2015

Chrono 24, in my opinion is a minefield ... and there are a lot of overpriced watches

gatorcpa · Jul 10, 2015

G Groenn
I am usually way too sceptical when buying from private sellers. Especially when its across national borders.

Back to scouring the internet!

There are two nice 1950's Omega bumpers currently listed on our Private Sales Forum.

https://omegaforums.net/forums/private-watch-sales/

Both are under half of the Chrono24 listing's price and both are all original.

Good luck with your search.
gatorcpa

Willem023 · Jul 10, 2015

G Groenn
Thanks for the replies! I agree about the crown.
I guess I should start looking more at ebay and private sellers and less at chrono24. I did find a great deal of comfort in the fact that it was legitimate businesses. I am usually way too sceptical when buying from private sellers. Especially when its across national borders.

Back to scouring the internet!

Please be very careful in stating that C24 is 'legitimate business'! I know (the hard and very, very costly way, some years ago) that not all dealers on C24 are legit. Quite a lot of stories of watches being paid but not delivered, or lesser value/wrong watches being delivered. As stated: I learned the hard way.
Only after filing for a law suit (by others) C24 was willing to block this particular seller.
Always, as in 'always' do your own private due diligence; not only concerning the watch, but also the guy/girl selling it.

Groenn · Jul 10, 2015

@gatorcpa, i have seen the 1950'ies pieces - but I find them they are too flashy, or inconveniently located.

I totally agree Willem023, and i expected c24 being that way. one of the many problems, is that it is way to easy to get "pro" membership. I am sorry to hear you had such a bad experience there. My plan was to buy a watch from inside the EU, and then making a trip with my girlfriend to go buy it.

Willem023 · Jul 10, 2015

Always a good excuse to take the GF somewhere nice..😁

Stewart H · Jul 10, 2015

Willem023
Please be very careful in stating that C24 is 'legitimate business'! I know (the hard and very, very costly way, some years ago) that not all dealers on C24 are legit. Quite a lot of stories of watches being paid but not delivered, or lesser value/wrong watches being delivered. As stated: I learned the hard way.
Only after filing for a law suit (by others) C24 was willing to block this particular seller.
Always, as in 'always' do your own private due diligence; not only concerning the watch, but also the guy/girl selling it.

Willem. Do you mean that they blocked the seller of the watch in the OP or that they blocked the seller with whom you had difficulties?

Willem023 · Jul 10, 2015

They (c24) blocked the firm (long gone and bust by now) that offered me -and others- the watch then.

Appeared that this German firm f-d up with some more watches: sold stuff and got paid by customers and never delivered. It took a lawyer to 1) file a case against this firm (never got any money out of this guy, his son or daughter) and 2) 'convince' c24 that they should have done their homework before admitting a firm on c24, despite numerous complaints (and proof of misconduct) on this particular seller.
And offcourse c24 stated that they always...... in good faith.....never heard anything......uhuh 🤦

Lessons learned!! 🫨 but wiser these days 😎

ConElPueblo · Jul 10, 2015

Matty01
Chrono 24, in my opinion is a minefield ... and there are a lot of overpriced watches

Chrono24 is, IMO, a place where sellers put up their goods for bartering - never pay the price advertised. If you see a piece you'd like and if it's in a condition you find acceptable, simply bid what you find reasonable and often you and the seller will find a happy medium. I paid a much lower price for my Seamaster than advertised and even to begin with it was the cheapest one on the site and the one in, probably, the best condition! I was genuinely surprised when the Italian dealer accepted my opening bid and I did a great deal.

Willem023 · Jul 11, 2015

ConElPueblo
Chrono24 is, IMO, a place where sellers put up their goods for bartering - never pay the price advertised. If you see a piece you'd like and if it's in a condition you find acceptable, simply bid what you find reasonable and often you and the seller will find a happy medium. I paid a much lower price for my Seamaster than advertised and even to begin with it was the cheapest one on the site and the one in, probably, the best condition! I was genuinely surprised when the Italian dealer accepted my opening bid and I did a great deal.

And even the 'medium' might yes/no land on your doormat....

I try to use my past experience in a positive way though 🙄 by warning other people to be careful and keep paying attention, especially when judgement is clouded by greed (yes, it happens), fatique (after so many years of searching for 'the one') and enchanting beauty altogether.

Having said that: happy hunting!! 📖

davidswiss · Jul 13, 2015

I only bought once from C24, an IWC. It arrived as described at a good price and all was good. I should add, though, that I had been pointed in that direction by a well respected IWC collector and would not normally buy something from an unknown (to me) dealer.
I also sold, once, via C24. The buyer contacted me directly and eventually visited and bought the watch which was a nice way to do business.
It's the same as any market place. You must research those you want to buy from and be careful when you sell to have the money in your hand/bank account before you part with your watch. Sounds obvious but people often get carried away when they spot a watch they want or sense a good deal when selling.

chickenman26 · Jul 13, 2015

gatorcpa
The watch presents well. My guess is that there was some extensive work done on it at one time, but it was all done as correctly as possible. Not sure if the dial is original or a nice redial. Would need to see it close up.

I believe that this is a Ref. 2585, not a 2383. Omega shows the 2585 as having the cal. 332 movement, and the 2383 as having a manual winding 30mm movement.

The number in the case back is 2583. Judging from the pic of a CK 2583 on the vintage site, that's exactly what it appears to be...with a Roman numeral variation of the dial. But last I knew, 4 is represented by IV, not IIII. And yeah, wrong crown.

dantaspaulo · Jul 14, 2015

chickenman26
The number in the case back is 2583. Judging from the pic of a CK 2583 on the vintage site, that's exactly what it appears to be...with a Roman numeral variation of the dial. But last I knew, 4 is represented by IV, not IIII. And yeah, wrong crown.

You'll more often than not see "IIII" instead of "IV" on dials.

As a matter of fact, I own the very model and it all looks kosher but for the crown. I just love the thump-thump noise of these early bumpers 😀

gatorcpa · Jul 14, 2015

I just took another look online and found this watch:

http://www.retrovintagewatch.com/om...-tone-dial-automatic-bumper-vintage-1947.html

This dial matches the one on the Omega Vintage Database. After comparing the logo and crown on this example, I think the C24 watch is all original as well. I always recommend an in person inspection to be sure.

Still priced way too high, IMO.
gatorcpa

Geordie · Jul 14, 2015

Mine is pretty close but a manual wind. The class on mine has been sandpapered I think.

dantaspaulo · Jul 14, 2015

gatorcpa
I just took another look online and found this watch:

http://www.retrovintagewatch.com/om...-tone-dial-automatic-bumper-vintage-1947.html

This dial matches the one on the Omega Vintage Database. After comparing the logo and crown on this example, I think the C24 watch is all original as well. I always recommend an in person inspection to be sure.

Still priced way too high, IMO.
gatorcpa

I think I sold one just like that to @CdnWatchDoc last year. Lovely little thing it was 😀

Forum lurker needing some assistance with a possible purchase, ref. 2383

Groenn

Tony C.

gatorcpa

Geordie

Groenn

Matty01

gatorcpa

Willem023

Groenn

Willem023

Stewart H

Willem023

ConElPueblo

Willem023

davidswiss

chickenman26

dantaspaulo

gatorcpa

Geordie

dantaspaulo

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