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  1. Faz Sep 29, 2016

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    Can anybody shed some light on this movement? It's in one of my chronographs and I'm investigating it's provenance.

    AirainMovement_zpse27bd2f8.jpg
    Cheers,
     
  2. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Sep 29, 2016

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    Valjoux 22?
     
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  3. Faz Sep 29, 2016

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    Almost...V-222 flyback but I have never seen one like this. Most of them equip military (Type XX) chronographs. This one is in my Airain Type XX but it lacks some of the features of the issued watches. I am trying to find out what iteration of the 222 this movement is.
     
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  4. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Sep 30, 2016

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    My issued Airain for comparison... what movement features are you referring to? There is a serial number on all the issued movements I have seen, and many times parts have been replaced/repaired during service and so are not "factory original. Movement photo from the seller (@Zaf Basha )

    IMG_4758.JPG IMG_4759.JPG
     
  5. Faz Sep 30, 2016

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    This is exactly the discussion I wanted to start. Hopefully it will get me somewhere.
    The first thing is the lack of a hairspring protector. And as you said, no serial number on mine.
    All the issued watches have that little triangle on the balance bridge.
    The odd presence of "Swiss Made" on the movement plate. Absent on issued watches.
    You will also notice that the spring located next to the serial number on the issued watch movement is of the wire variety as opposed to the one on my watch.
    If anything the movement present in my watch resembles the ones equipping the Breguet type XX modified Valjoux 22s that had no hairspring protection. Except that the Breguet was not equipped with "Incabloc" shock absorbing as opposed to the movement in my watch.
    That's basically what Breguet did.
    Breguet even went so far to add an extra "2" to the r22 on the movement plate to make it "222".
    Some have said that someone "hacked" a v-22 and made it a "222".
    A scan of the Breguet "222" (borrowed from the net.
    Breguet Type XX V-222_zpssnvvqeo1.jpg

    But I would think that this would be extremely hard to do for anybody other than a seasoned watch maker to deceive the buyer? And expensive. So I was thinking a civilian version? Thoughts?
     
    Edited Sep 30, 2016
  6. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Sep 30, 2016

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    I've seen many Type 20/21s with wire springs vs. machined. I suspect those were replaced that way while in active use as a matter of common practice. The mil-spec watches were often done in batches, with consecutive serial numbers, or at least within a tight range. As for the rest, over the course of production, is not unusual to see minor variations of the same movement.

    @Faz What brand is your watch, and what does the rest of it look like? Maybe the movement or an ebauche was produced for a "private label"?
     
    Edited Oct 1, 2016
  7. Faz Oct 1, 2016

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    IMG_0007.JPG This Airain. French forum experts say case is from a Dodane but Airain, Dodane and Chronofixe parts interchanged occasionally during service. Another interesting fact is that Airain watches do not have the "FG" engravings on the back.
    Returning to the movement, I can certainly see that parts might have been changed during service but I would have thought that the balance assembly would have included the hairspring protector.
    Cheers
     
  8. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Oct 1, 2016

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    @Faz All made by the same manufacture, but no doubt some difference across the lines and over time. As you note, the Airain, and some Dodane, may not have the FG marks but were issued nonetheless.

    Does yours have the Besançon observatory stamp on the caseback?


    IMG_4773.JPG
     
  9. Faz Oct 1, 2016

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    Yes..
    IMG_0008.JPG
    This one has "Acier inoxydable" as opposed to "Tout acier" on yours. I've seen both case backs on Dodane and Airain. As you said made, assembled and serviced by the same manufacturer. The only real oddity in my watch is the movement. Oddly, not much info on the V 222 other than equipped many of the known issued chronographs.

    EDIT: You'll also notice the case back is a little different that yours. The grooves on mine are quite shorter.
     
  10. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Oct 1, 2016

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    You shd also post on MWR. There are some French collectors there who know their Type XXs inside out -- whether civvie or military.
     
  11. Faz Oct 1, 2016

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    I did so in the past. The mystery about the movement persists. I was reaching out to see if there ae r.222 cognoscenti that can chime in.