Hi,

I went on a bike ride and my Omega Geneve cal 601 from 1968 (136.041 ) fogged.

I just had it serviced and they changed the movement.

The crystal and crown are not original.
It was a hot day and I probably was sweating while riding fast.

What may be the cause?

The caseback? could I unscrew it and put some silicone on the caseback threads or it would be a messy solution that could damage the movement?
I need to check if there is a gasket. The caseback says "waterproof".

Is it the crown? I can order a new crown, would i need a new stem and gasket?

Or is it the crystal? being non original the seal may not be so good. But the crystal side was not in contact with my sweaty wrist.

a couple of hours later there was no more condensation.

I put the watch on a NATO style strap now so the caseback would not be directly in contact with my skin.
Does not look bad on a nylon strap, but I prefer the black leather after all

thanks for the advice.

stefano

 

Lots of threads on this topic lately. Some good advice out there.

 

Thanks. I read those threads. Strange thing is that when I rode the bicycle back no more fogging happened. I would not leave an open case back in rice as rice is very dusty. If you rinse rice the water turns milky. But I would use rice for a cell phone or a watch with a closed case back. Does the seal / gasket has to be omega?
Anyway my guess is that the leak must be from the crystal or case back as I was riding the bike ( or maybe I had the watch on my right wrist so the crown was facing up rather than down and droplets may have entered) . I am waiting for the glass and orig crown from ofrei. I could order gaskets as well if generic ones would not fit. Would I have to change the crown stem as well?

And what about putting some silicone on the case back threads? Would it be a hazard for the movement?

Thanks

 

Silicone grease, or any other lubricant, does not act as a sealant. The purpose of putting such grease on a case back gasket for example, is to keep the seal from bunching up under the case back as it is screwed down, so it just allows the two surfaces to slip as the case back is tightened.

Water resistance on vintage watches is a tough subject as many things can contribute to the watch case failing to seal. The case back seal has to be in good shape, not compressed and hardened, and as noted have a little silicone grease applied to it. But the surface of the case back that touches that seal must not have severe pitting, or the groove that the case back seal sits in also must be free of deep putting.

Same goes for the area where the crystal seats...it must be free of pitting, and the crystal must be fit into the case snugly.

The last area on a watch like this is the crown. The seal inside the crown is replaced by installing a new crown as many crowns can't be easily disassembled to replace the seal. So if the seal is good, then the next thing is the case tube, so it can't be overly worn or even a new seal in the crown will not fully seal on the tube. If the tube is worn it can usually be replaced...some are press fit into the case, some screw in, and some are part of the case so those have to be drilled out and the case typically tapped to accept a new tube. The tube connection to the case is important obviously so typically either Loctite thread locker is used on threaded tubes, or retaining compound is used on press fit tubes per Omega specs.

Sometimes no matter how many parts you change the watch still does not seal...

Until you know it's okay (by having it pressure tested) I would suggest not getting it wet, or wearing it in humid weather.

Cheers, Al

 

Thanks. I suspect it is the case back as I was riding the bicycle in warm weather. I must have sweated and the watch was strapped to my skin. I do not expect too much waterproofing. I will change the crystal and get a gasket. Maybe will post a photo tomorrow. I saw ofrei sells a lot of gaskets. I need to find out the correct size. I am wearing it now on a NATO strap. 2 layers of nylon separate the case back from my wrist. It may be a better solution for wearing a vintage watch when outside in hot weather. Al thanks for the advice. I have a couple of dive watches for rainy days but would just try to make sure there is no fogging just for going on a bike ride. It also happened when I went out in the morning. Could have been the difference from the cooler apt and then being in the hot sun on a more humid day. Will leave it overnight in a jar of rice. It is not fogged now at all and I am wearing it

 

I wouldn't advise taking the case back off for an extended period of time unless you can really control the environment around the watch (like in a plastic box or something). Too much opportunity for dust and air particles to attach themselves to the lubricating oil in the watch.

all you're doing when you place the watch head in a bag of rice (or any other desiccant) is stabilizing the relative humidity of environment. The rice doesn't dry out the watch, per se, it just lowers the humidity for the entire bag including the watch head. The reason I wrote that you should open the crown is to speed up this process but even that's not totally necessary.

My friend Steve who is a big watch dealer told me watch fogging is common this time of year when watches are shipped from high humidity areas to low humidity places.

Someone also mentioned air shipping in the other thread…he's right, cargo hulls aren't pressurized and the watches literally swell up in transit. If the seals are older they can fail.

Oh yeah - the reason I wrote to take the leather strap off is because if it's really wet then the rice can turn the strap into a hot mess.

 

Thanks.
It is actually cal 613. Anyway I see no gasket. I will post photos tomorrow. I put it in small tupperware like container on top of rice with loosened case back and pulled crown. As I wrote it did not happen again. It could have been also the sun shining on the watch.

 

This write up touches on it,
http://watchtech.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-17/pi-2594511/ti-432251/t-/

 

I took photos after opening up. It looks like the treads of the caseback are dirty. I wish the watchmaker would have cleaned it. the seal looks new. Is there any way I can clean it myself with a Q tip and some product to clean camera lenses?

does the gasket look old?

 

Yes the case back threads should have been cleaned for sure, but keep in mind that the threads don't do the sealing, the seal does. The seal looks like it is twisted, which is something I try to avoid. But also it appears you have some corrosion and pitting on the case in the groove where the gasket sits. Hard to tell how deep it is from the photo, but this may be at least part of your problem.

Cheers, Al

 

Thanks Al, I wonder if I should take it back to the watchmaker and complain that the threads have not been cleaned. Some debris on a seal compromises it. Probably if the threads have dirt it eventually compromises the seal.
Is there any way to stop the corrosion?

I could try to clean the grrove myself with a toothpick and Q tip...

I do not want to go crazy about it, but somehow limit the issue.

Fogging only happened in the morning. I was out the whole day and there were no more issues. It could have to do with the indoor / outddor sudden temperature change

 

Was the watch pressure tested, and was any warranty given on water resistance?

 

The watchmaker fixed the balance and some other stuff as the watch was fast and there were issues.

I do not think the watch was pressure tested. They told me I had to change crown and crystal to make it waterproof. I was not very happy of the transaction as I approved the estimate for the balance repair and movement oiling, but I was told for 35 more they would replace the crown and they did not. and I ended up paying the estimate that included that.

So I am torn between bringing it back or just going to Chinatown where this watchmaker from China serviced a vintage Wittnauer for $50 and even did more work than expected (the 1950s wittnauer is spot on - and also had a bent pin that made the minute hand get stuck. there was a risk of breaking it by straightening it) He seems to love watches, and unlike most chinatown shops he has a pressure tester, a electronic watch timing machine etc.

Or go back to other watchmaker and complain (they also took 3 weeks instead of 2, so I went once to pick it up for nothing). In NYC it is hard to find watchmakers that do not just do battery changes or that do not charge an arm and a leg,

The person I found in Chinatown is very nice and I think he can do a good basic job. I think for some issues it would be worth sending watches to you or some other members).

As a freelance photojournalist with no reg income for me budget is an issue, but also a reliable work

 

If they told you it was not water resistant, then I'm not sure you can really go back on them with this. If you paid for a new crown and didn't get it, then you need to follow up with them on that. Honestly I'm having a hard time following what was or was not done to the watch. You talk about a movement swap in the first post, but here talk about balance work. You knew the crystal and crown we're not original and I'm unclear if the crystal was replaced...

Cheers, Al

 

Al thanks.
I should correct the post, I picked it up in a hurry as I had to go out of town for an assignment. When I opened yesterday I saw they did not change the movement but the balance. They never replaced the crystal nor the crown, but I was told over the phone they would.

 

Okay still finding it odd that you agreed to an estimate that included a new crown and crystal, apparently paid for that, but didn't ask about it when you got the watch back?

Have you asked the shop why they didn't do what you paid for?

 

Al,
I was in a hurry, I had to drive to an assignment 80 km out of the city. The person that repaired my watch said the parts costed him $175. The orig estimate was 225, but then they said for 250 they'd do crown and crystal.

I did not feel like arguing. I just now feel disappointed that the job was less than promised.

I could take it back and complain that the caseback is not clean or I can take it to someone else when I get the glass and crown.

It is an unusual watch with the blue indices and hands. It looks good to me. I am considering a black leather NATO so the case back would not be in direct contact with skin and sweat.

I hope this thread is not too long, as after all it is good to have information that can be useful for people that may encounter similar issues in the future.

 

I wanted to give an update.

I ordered an original crystal, crown and a gasket / O ring from Otto Frei. I took it to Precision watch & clock repair in Chinatown. The watchmaker installed the parts I brought and charged me just 20. The watch looks nicer, I never had a fogging problem any more. And it has been 90 F / 30+ C in the past couple of days. Thank you all for the advice.