A week or so ago I came across a very intriguing watch for sale - something completely outside of my usual wheelhouse. It was reasonably priced, and from one of the big 3, but not only was it solid 18k yellow gold (a slightly dubious first for me), it had an inscription on the back, which was itself quite buffed (somewhat of a negative). I was fascinated by it, but it was so unusual and completely unknown to me that I was afraid to pull the trigger. It was also double signed by a Swiss jeweler 'Gubelin'. There was very little information listed along with the sale, where it was just described as a 'vintage' watch. A few days later I was doing my usual 'rounds' on the Interweb (which these days pretty much just consists of this place, Hodinkee, and a couple of favored dealer sites) and I read this article ...Audemars Piguet's own historian talking about upcoming sales...

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/Michael-Friedmans-Best-Vintage-APs-Of-May-2015

Lo and behold the first watch discussed was a white gold version of the watch I had been looking at - at least now I had a model number, and some context. It turns out it is an AP 5093, probably from the late 50s, and referred to by Italian collectors (who else?!) as a 'disco volante' or flying saucer! Here is the archive picture that was provided in the article, and you can see how appropriate the nick name is...it contains the long-time record breaking hand wound ultra thin 2003 movement introduced by AP in 1953.



Armed with this information ( and noting that they mention that a 18k YG version resides in the AP museum ) I went back to the sellers site on Friday with some trepidation... I was still a little unsure, but given the generous return policy on offer, I lifted it.

In the mean time, the one referred to in the article sold at auction for CHF 13,750 ($15k)... Many times what I paid for the YG version.

http://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/CH080215/sort/artist

It arrived a couple of days ago. I absolutely love it, the bezel is immaculate (very important on this model I think ). I even don't mind the inscription...but there is one potentially troublesome area... The dial, or specifically the text on the dial appears to have gone blurry. This is not really visible to the naked eye at watch wearing distance, but under magnification it looks very weird... At first it screamed re-dial. It's very strange though, as there are a lot of lines as part of the dial design. These surround some different colored blocks on the dial perfectly, but they also look a bit fuzzy under magnification. I just seems odd that a re-dialer would pull that bit off OK and then blur the text - could the paint just have bled over time ? And it's such a rare and unusual watch, who would bother doing all of that to just sell the thing somewhat 'on the cheap'... Who knows? Anyway I decided to call AP and ask their opinion...

Talk about customer service! I spoke to someone in Switzerland, who passed me over to someone in the USA, who passed me over to none other than Michael Friedman ( AP historian ) and writer of the Hodinkee article... He was in the middle of a live auction, and took the call on his cell. But he still took the time to listen to my story (shorter version!). Anyway, he seemed as intrigued as I was, and offered to do some research. He even apologized that he wouldn't be able to reply before Friday, as he was traveling from the auction today! So I sent him these pictures, and am waiting eagerly to hear back... In the mean time if you have any thoughts, advice, experience of these, or have ever seen anything similar please let me know ! Here we go ...

 

Nice find, will be glad to hear more from the AP guy. But the dial of the gold one looks to have been redone. Still the watch itself if genuine sure has historical importance. Good luck with the fact finding mission.

 

The text/fonts used for "Gubelin and AP" appear to match. I would expect the jeweler's signature to differ in some way, as it would normally have been added later. This makes me wonder if the dial was customized by (or for) the jeweler at the time, rather than just adding their name.

 

Good point!

 

It's most definitely a redial, and frankly, not a good one.

 

I'd wager that the original dial had different fonts for make and dealer, and that these were "streamlined" when the redialer did his job.
Bloody good looking, just need a crisper dial!

Sell it for a easy Hodinkee-flavoured profit

 

Agreed - I'm actually going to take it to show the AP historian next week (to discuss 'options' ) who thankfully happens to be in NY. It's bloody criminal that someone would do this to this watch! We'll see where it leads...

 

At least a better quality re finish is in order. Very interesting time piece. m

 

Yes it's currently sitting in Le Brassus, and I'm awaiting a quotation to bring it back up to spec... Unfortunately this one has been tampered with in more recent times, but AP did confirm that these dials were hand painted in the first place, so no two would ever be exactly alike anyway...

 

Just came across this...
http://www.edmarshalljewelers.com/owned-watches-vintage-watches-audemars-piguet-vintage-p-10871.html
Thoughts?

 

^that is a bad redial.

 

Thought so.. Not really my cup of tea, just saw this thread a few days ago and found the watch while I was checking local pawn/ jewelry exchanges websites...

 

Can't wait to hear the resolution...

 

So. No end to the story? Original dial etc.

Found this while reading another artivle on the Omega model

DON

 

not a native italian, but "disco volante" could also mean flywheel/pressure plate (at least in spanish it does)...

 

And watch is up for sale at Crown and Caliber for $1749. Inscription on the back matches.

https://www.crownandcaliber.com/buy/audemars-piguet/audemars-piguet-vintage-18k-yellow-gold-erp12096

 

Oops - I was on vacation when this was posted ... Since I'm one of those losers that only ever looks at page 1 of 'recent' I totally missed it, apologies .... Yes it came back from AP with a rather large quotation to have the dial restored - I can't remember exactly how much but it was something like 3-4K - a few interesting things ...1. When I said ' no way, forget it, just send me the watch back' they immediately dropped the quoted price by half, like some kind of used car dealership, which I thought was odd ... 2. I had originally bought the watch from C&C and given I had kept them informed of the whole process, they honored an extended return policy, despite the lengthy delay in getting it back ( as you can see, they are still trying to sell it .... ) 3. There's another one on sale here : https://www.ebay.com/itm/131735940451Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

They failed to mention the blatant redial and instead stated that the watch is in "Very Good condition" and "Crown & Caliber Certified Authentic".

Top notch stuff.

 

Terribly disappointed in C&C. I thought they were above this. Or am I just naïve? Then again there is Hodinkee........