Well I am sure others have seen this, but I thought it would be fun to discuss this rather than "human Issues" that have diverted the great minds of the forum lately....

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This is billed as an FAP with a 2998-4 case back.

Now those who know, know (so hold back for a while) and those who do not, discuss and learn.

Simple questions:
When is the bezel from ?
Does the dial match the case?
Does the case back match?
Does this ring any alarms in your Speedy-Sense?

Intermediate:
What is the dial from?
Is it original?
Do the hands match the dial?
Do the hands match each other?

Advanced:
Is the dial valuable?
Does the movement match the dial/caseback/anything?
When is the movement from?
Is the movement original?
Should you buy the watch as a project?
If so what reference would it be?
Would the movement match?

Have fun

 

Aren't FAP speedys supposed to have an engraving? Lyre lug case....put together?

 

This also tends to be a "human issue" since it is a scam.
And the watch in question already fails when taking the simple questions to evaluate it

 

Fair point, it could be - but I thought it would be an interesting assessment exercise. If I were buying I would have to consult @gemini4 who has had some good deals out of South America.

So Ok, lets preface the whole thing with

"Assuming its not a scam"

As, Spoiler alert, I dont think you should buy it anyway!

 

Good to have different level questions.
I am a novice and trying to learn and will be interested to see some answers as people respond.
I can see that the bezel is not original to the watch and is quite recent, that the chrono hand is wrong and again more recent. Should the case back have a twin bevel. The dial has been retouched in places.
I would not buy it as even to my untrained eye its strange.
That's about my limit of knowledge
Thanks @Spacefruit

 

Am having fun with this listing. Thx for posting W. Quite interesting set of questions as well, spot on

 

Bargains can be found in dealing with South American Sellers.
Good honest, but often worn, examples.
The OP example is certainly not and should be avoided.

A better 2998-4

 

Now that makes things easier

 

Look at the serial number on the movement. Then look at the large screw head and paper clip thingy Also, sad state of affairs on the dial. I like how someone filled in the minute marks with white out between 4 and 6.

 

It’s listed as one to avoid on Bring a Loupe on Hodinkee

 

The dials kind of interesting. It's a mid-late 2998 dial and as it's a) rare, and b) slightly brown it should be valuable. After all if you have a 2998 with an incorrect dial where else will you find a correct one?

However, the lume looks like dirt, the dial body is dull and tired and it's been touched up in various places to hide scratches and damage.

It's almost certainly spent a significant amount of its life outside of a watch, banging around in a drawer or box and is worth very little.

 

Are we sure this is a scam in the truest sense?

Given the fact that absolutely nothing matches, the dial, movement, case, caseback, bezel are all completely incompatible (even individual parts of the movement are incorrect with the serial, which in turn is incorrect) it may be a genuine sale of a complete and utter franken watch.

 

Here’s another shot of the op watch

 

They didn't even use an Omega certified paperclip. For shame!

 

Hodinkee covered this yesterday in bring a loupe.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/bring-a-loupe-august-31-2018

It’s a nightmare. But the Patek and A&F Heuer are stunning.

 

I’ve only been into collecting vintages for 4 months now, but Im a quick learner and I will have a quick go at your challenge.

Simple questions:
When is the bezel from ?
A Speedmaster Pro approx -71 to -86

Does the dial match the case?
Yes, for some reason...

Does the case back match?
No, double bevel caseback from either the stated 2998-4, 105.003/105.002 or 105.0012

Does this ring any alarms in your Speedy-Sense?
Where not in Kansas anymore....

Intermediate:
What is the dial from?
Most likely the stated 2998-4 or a 105.003 or a 105.012 before -64?

Is it original?
Looks like it, connected S, AML, long hours, step dial, only Swiss Made, but with a nice freehand artwork added.

Do the hands match the dial?
No, missing everything, alpha hands, correct chrono hand and three ”alpha” or thinner straight small hands.

Do the hands match each other?
Yes, looking like they are all from a -71 145.022 or forward.

Advanced:
Is the dial valuable?
Not really, maybe too far gone, and the Andy Warhol artwork doesn’t help.

Does the movement match thedial/caseback/anything?
The caseback, dial and crown could potentially suit the movement?

When is the movement from?
A 2998-4 maybe if the serial was in the picture starting from 18xxx.

Is the movement original?
Yes, but bridge from a gen2, missing the original asymmetric one.

Should you buy the watch as a project?
No, very far gone, too expensive to put right. With the right case, maybe?

If so what reference would it be?
2998-4, only if you have a correct case and all hands and bezel for it.

Would the movement match?
With a new case, then yes.

How did I do? Am I allowed to step into the “Ed White” or “Neil Armstrong” territory of collectibles yet? Or did I make a complete fool out of myself?

 

Let's play: I will group the mid case, bezel, all hands and bracelet as one and the rest for the other. While the mid case, case back and bezel are parts considered okay, the rest is far too damaged. A project is something you find one missing part or two to complete, which is clearly not the case here. I guess the "FAP" might be hidden under the paperclip(s)..

 

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