FAKE 861 Speedmaster with an applied dial?! What’s going on here?

WYO_Watch · Nov 10, 2017

I was up late scrolling through Ebay and not entirely sure what I stumbled upon. Watch is from Singapore and looks new - I am guessing a fake, but have only seen a few of them, and none like this.

The watch is supposedly a 145.022 but has an applied dial and no T. Thought it could be a service pre-professional dial? But the S and p are connected, so it looks more like the “replica” dial. Of course it has the wrong hands and I don’t know if this would work with the 861.

I asked the seller for a movement shot and was sent a photo with a movement that doesn’t have a full serial number...

Dead Link/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/232556613672

Here are screenshots of the dial, back and movement. I would love to hear your thoughts. I am always itching for an applied logo, but will not be satisfying the itch on this one.

gdupree · Nov 10, 2017

I saw that one too, and it raised plenty of red flags.

Didn't spend a ton of time debating, but my immediate response was fake. Nearly reported it, but then thought about something else and moved on.

WYO_Watch · Nov 10, 2017

It’s crazy that they even fake the movement. Part of me wonders if it has some real parts cobbled in? Anyway, you can get a real Speedy and a nice one at that for the money he is asking. Hope no one gets played.

Vercingetorix · Nov 10, 2017

Look at the hand engraved Omega Swiss🤮.

Vercingetorix · Nov 10, 2017

I am betting it started life as a Tissot or something.

saulgoodman · Nov 10, 2017

Nice pickup. It is a shame that this seems to be happening more often. I guess it is the price you pay when the market for vintage Speedmasters goes spiraling upwards (justification for this is a debate for another time). The same thing happened years ago when baseball card collecting blew up. Fake cards began to pop up and it became difficult to tell what you were buying. Out of nowhere companies sprung up providing authentication services. The fee for authentication was passed on to the buyers and the cost of the cards went even higher, for a while. Almost as quickly as they rose, the prices suddenly dropped. Authentication is still a thing because so many of those fake cards are still out there. As long as there is a Singapore, Taiwan, etc. that harbor these practices you need to be on your guard.

Tritium · Nov 10, 2017

While I don't like the watch, I wouldn't call it fake, but franken. Case, dial, and hands looks omega parts. Not correct, but not fake. The movement is another history. Could be a mix of some lemania based movements with some ugly and dishonest hand engraved parts.

Foo2rama · Nov 10, 2017

Metal brake? 17jewel movement... 861 on baseplate. 24m Serial....

Wow.

Frankin movement and hodgepodge of parts. I think it’s a cut down 321 service dial.

mr_yossarian · Nov 10, 2017

Just tell me one reason why anyone would want this thing. What I could say about the seller is way beyond obscenity publicly accepted here.

doog · Nov 10, 2017

That piece of jiggery-pokery is going to catch someone less observant out, and that will be a travesty. These frankens/fakes are beginning to get worryingly good, but the really obvious tell with this one is that you’re kind of unlikely to find a brand spanking new 145.022 without a mark on it. I’m with Yossarian in my opinion of the lowlifes who perpetrate these horrors...

GGG964 · Nov 10, 2017

Can somebody confirm if I am correct on this? I forget the source of this information, but I read a while back that you can tell if the hands are real or not by the length. The minute hand does appear to be a tad too short whereas on a real one, the minute hand extends to the smallest markers.

mr_yossarian · Nov 10, 2017

GGG964
Can somebody confirm if I am correct on this? I forget the source of this information, but I read a while back that you can tell if the hands are real or not by the length. The minute hand does appear to be a tad too short whereas on a real one, the minute hand extends to the smallest markers.

A 145.022 , caliber 861 with a 24xx serial..

GGG964 · Nov 10, 2017

mr_yossarian
A 145.022 , caliber 861 with a 24xx serial..

I understand that... I was just commenting on the hands themselves. Somebody mentioned that they are Omega parts, but i disagree.. I wanted to see if there was some truth to what I mentioned above.

dennisthemenace · Nov 10, 2017

GGG964
I understand that... I was just commenting on the hands themselves. Somebody mentioned that they are Omega parts, but i disagree.. I wanted to see if there was some truth to what I mentioned above.

They are Omega hands, but only correct for Mk 2's.

GGG964 · Nov 10, 2017

ahh alright. Thank you

Koen · Nov 11, 2017

dennisthemenace
They are Omega hands, but only correct for Mk 2's.

I would say those are teutonic hands because of they are all white and fit an 861 mvmt, but the minute hand lume is like a pro moon. MK2 hands have black paint at the bottom and the minute hand has lume isn't right.

my guess would be fake hands.

Northernman · Nov 11, 2017

Tritium
While I don't like the watch, I wouldn't call it fake, but franken. Case, dial, and hands looks omega parts. Not correct, but not fake. The movement is another history. Could be a mix of some lemania based movements with some ugly and dishonest hand engraved parts.

Not to split hairs, but all vintage Omega chronograph movements are Lemania based. 😉
Not really fake, but definitely a product of the parts-bin of someone......

Jamgantenk · Jul 5, 2019

Koen
I would say those are teutonic hands because of they are all white and fit an 861 mvmt, but the minute hand lume is like a pro moon. MK2 hands have black paint at the bottom and the minute hand has lume isn't right.

my guess would be fake hands.

Yes that looks like teutonic hands

joeshoup · Jul 5, 2019

GGG964
Can somebody confirm if I am correct on this? I forget the source of this information, but I read a while back that you can tell if the hands are real or not by the length. The minute hand does appear to be a tad too short whereas on a real one, the minute hand extends to the smallest markers.

Those look a lot like Mark IV hands, which you can still order from Ofrei. I know because I bought a Speedy once which had this type of shorty hands installed, presumably in some long ago service.

Patrik83 · Jul 6, 2019

To me this looks franken not fake. I have see. Mark IV hands on a couple of speedmasters. Dial looks like a A8 Replica in MWO.

FAKE 861 Speedmaster with an applied dial?! What’s going on here?

WYO_Watch

gdupree

WYO_Watch

Vercingetorix

Vercingetorix

saulgoodman

Tritium

Foo2rama

mr_yossarian

doog

GGG964

mr_yossarian

GGG964

dennisthemenace

GGG964

Koen

Northernman

Jamgantenk

joeshoup

Patrik83

Similar threads

861 Speedmaster Parts (C3 Tritium Dial, -71 Case back, Tritium Hand Sets, DNN B2 Bezel)

What's going on here then?

Discovery of a new jumbo connie model 14778? What's going on here?

So what's going on here?

So what's going on here then?

What's going on here?