Experiences/Tips on getting started with servicing for myself?

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I've not heard many great reviews of these cheap winders. First question is, what is preventing you from using it?

You need a winder that first is the right direction - some wind the spring in in one direction, and others wind in the opposite direction.

You need the arbor of the winder to reasonably fit the inner coil of the mainspring - can't be too large or too small compared to that inner coil.

You need the barrel of the winder to closely fit the inside diameter of the mainspring barrel drum - can;t be too large at all, but has to be large enough to fit pretty much all the spring into it to wind it all up.

What parameter isn't fitting the spring or barrel?
 
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I've not heard many great reviews of these cheap winders. First question is, what is preventing you from using it?

You need a winder that first is the right direction - some wind the spring in in one direction, and others wind in the opposite direction.

You need the arbor of the winder to reasonably fit the inner coil of the mainspring - can't be too large or too small compared to that inner coil.

You need the barrel of the winder to closely fit the inside diameter of the mainspring barrel drum - can;t be too large at all, but has to be large enough to fit pretty much all the spring into it to wind it all up.

What parameter isn't fitting the spring or barrel?

It isn't clear exactly what is wrong. I chose the one with the biggest arbor size(which is 2.8mm instead of ~3.73mm for the arbor) and one with the correct arbor size, but it isn't starting. From the sound of it, that is way too much of a size difference. I was hopeful I could put it offset and still 'hook' it, but it sounds like that isn't really possible.

SO all attempts to spin the spring just don't have the spring move. SO to answer your question: I fail at the beginning 馃榾
 
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It isn't clear exactly what is wrong.
Pretty clear that either the arbor is too small, or the winder is the wrong direction. Post a photo of the tab on the arbor that is supposed to catch the spring...
 
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Pretty clear that either the arbor is too small, or the winder is the wrong direction. Post a photo of the tab on the arbor that is supposed to catch the spring...
I played a bit more, it is clear to me that the arbor is too small. I have the direction correct (and tried swapping directions), but the size difference is too much. I was able to make SOME progress by shoving a piece of sticky-note in it as a 'shim', but it ended up rotating once the tension from the spring got too high.
 
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Anyone have tips/cross-references that might work, or should I just move on with practicing by skipping the mainspring
Yea you can wind the mainspring by hand just be slow and careful with it.
 
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J JPMiu
Yea you can wind the mainspring by hand just be slow and careful with it.
You can, however by doing so you risk making the spring out of flat. A spring that is not perfectly flat inside the barrel will rub on the bottom of the barrel drum, and on the inside of the barrel cover. This will not only cause wear over time, but the added friction of this rubbing will cause lower balance amplitude due to increased drag.

The risk of making a spring out of flat increases with the height of the spring, and this spring is quite tall. Hand winding is certainly not ideal, but if the OP wants to move on it's an option. Not something I would recommend making a practice of though.
 
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I tried doing it manually a few time today and just couldn't get it to take. Though, now that I see how the mainspring winder is made, I might just make a custom one for this movement. they are pretty simple devices, and I have some material in my shop that should work.

Just gotta get time in my machine shop, which will probably be a while :/
 
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You need to be able to replace the mainspring as it is standard for a service. Fortunately, winders can be purchased one at a time but unfortunately, they are very expensive. I see Esslinger lists one for the 6497/8-1 and another for the -2. Either are $105 without the handle. Yeah, lotsa bucks, especially if you buy the one fit for a particular movement.

I bought one specifically for the 2824-2 that was maybe $15 more expensive than one that was included in the set (I believe it was a -7). Turns out the one i bought was 0.1 mm larger than the -7; hardly worth the expense (a material supplier I dealt with said "That's the cost of knowledge").

This begets the question "Which movement is the ST36 closest to, the -1 or -2 and what are the real differences". Could be one's a little smaller than the other and will fit, but it's a $105 experiment. I do know the standard set dimensions (at least the OD) are available online as that's how I knew the difference between mine and the -7.

One thing going for you, watches wind clockwise and pocket watches wind counter-clockwise, so you only need one handle for each. And my analysis doesn't touch on the problem you bring up; the spindle and hook dimensions. BTW, the red dot means clockwise; blue the opposite.
Edited:
 
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If you are actually replacing the mainspring (installing a new spring) you don't typically need a winder for that. Unless the spring has a special end (tee end or something like it) the spring can usually be pressed directly into the barrel from it's shipping ring.

I have a full set of Bergeon winders I bought used many years ago - I use them only a few times per year.
 
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If you are actually replacing the mainspring (installing a new spring) you don't typically need a winder for that. Unless the spring has a special end (tee end or something like it) the spring can usually be pressed directly into the barrel from it's shipping ring.

I have a full set of Bergeon winders I bought used many years ago - I use them only a few times per year.
As this is a new movement, I wasn't intending to replace it, else I would just do that. The movement itself is kinda crappy, and the only reason to do the winding is as 'practice'. I might see if I can do it by hand, just to get this project continuing. This is of course my 'parts'/'practice' movement, so it doesn't even have to run at the end, just have all the parts in the right place.

I saw the winder that @ExpiredWatchdog suggested, but I have no idea how to tell which I need, nor how many I'll end up wanting to own. I DO have a pair of actual pocket watches (plus two watches!) that both need one, so I'll buy those, $100 each is worth buying those if my kit doesn't have them.
 
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I decided to watch a video and just handwind the mainspring. It went... fine. I ended up having to take off my finger cots, so I did an ultra-sonic cleaning of it (plus dried to the best of my ability). I THINK it went right, and I hope I got the right direction 馃榿

I got the rest of the movement together with no issues (other than not the click of course), though it seems that I messed up the keyless works at one point. I have to pull that apart next time I get the chance, and look at my photos.
 
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I decided to watch a video and just handwind the mainspring. It went... fine. I ended up having to take off my finger cots, so I did an ultra-sonic cleaning of it (plus dried to the best of my ability). I THINK it went right, and I hope I got the right direction 馃榿

I got the rest of the movement together with no issues (other than not the click of course), though it seems that I messed up the keyless works at one point. I have to pull that apart next time I get the chance, and look at my photos.
Self reply 馃榿

I figured out why the setting wasn't happening, I think I swapped the 'little' gears. I didn't realize there was a difference in size.

When trying to wind, it just spins the whole movement in 1 direction, and causes the keyless-works-ratchet (whatever the ratchet between the two parts that go on the stem) to happen in the other direction.

I SUSPECT I messed up something winding the mainspring (I thought I got the right direction, but second-guessing now). At the moment, I'm kinda out of gas/have work to do, so I might leave this one to collect dust for a while 馃榾.
 
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I pulled apart the mainspring. Looking into the open barrel, the spring goes 'clockwise' (that is, if you follow from the inside to the outside, the spring goes clockwise). Can anyone confirm this is right? Or does anyone have a way of telling myself? I looked at the arbor under a microscope and it LOOKS like that should be the case.

There is also something wrong with the wheel train that i need to take apart and diagnose. It doesn't seem like the pallet-fork is stopping the wheels from moving, so I have to take a look at that as well.
 
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I pulled apart the mainspring. Looking into the open barrel, the spring goes 'clockwise' (that is, if you follow from the inside to the outside, the spring goes clockwise). Can anyone confirm this is right? Or does anyone have a way of telling myself? I looked at the arbor under a microscope and it LOOKS like that should be the case.

There is also something wrong with the wheel train that i need to take apart and diagnose. It doesn't seem like the pallet-fork is stopping the wheels from moving, so I have to take a look at that as well.
I can't speak to the ST version of this movement, but the original Unitas/ETA they are CCW. In fact the vast majority of mainsprings you will encounter are installed CCW, not CW.

If you do not have a photo to reference (something I recommend as you are starting out) then you can figure it out by looking at the barrel arbor. Look at which way the arbor goes in (one end will have a threaded hole, the other not) then look at the hook on the arbor, and you will quickly ascertain what direction the spring goes in.
 
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I can't speak to the ST version of this movement, but the original Unitas/ETA they are CCW. In fact the vast majority of mainsprings you will encounter are installed CCW, not CW.

If you do not have a photo to reference (something I recommend as you are starting out) then you can figure it out by looking at the barrel arbor. Look at which way the arbor goes in (one end will have a threaded hole, the other not) then look at the hook on the arbor, and you will quickly ascertain what direction the spring goes in.
Unfortunately I messed up disassembling it, and as soon as it was open, the mainspring found its way across the room! Lesson learned there!

As a picture is worth 1000 words (please pardon my mess, my microscope is usually used for electronics repair, so that bench is a mess):
That looks like the hook there, right? Which means this should spin counter-clockwise? So I think I have it right.



Edited:
 
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Ah, I just found why it doesn't work. I broke the top escape wheel pivot apparently. The pivot doesn't go into the jewel, so the escape wheel can move around all by itself.

SO, looks like I lost 2 screws plus broke the escape wheel. I have no idea when I did so, though I assume it was while I was putting the bridge back together.

My replacement ST36 comes Monday, so I can at least start over next week. I guess this one was good practice, and I at least didn't cost myself more than $30 on the movement. It was on its way to the parts-bin anyway, so looks like it just cemented its way 馃榾
 
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Unfortunately I messed up disassembling it, and as soon as it was open, the mainspring found its way across the room! Lesson learned there!

As a picture is worth 1000 words (please pardon my mess, my microscope is usually used for electronics repair, so that bench is a mess):
That looks like the hook there, right? Which means this should spin counter-clockwise? So I think I have it right.



Does it appear to you that the hook is going to catch on the spring?

If so, then try it and see.
 
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I got my replacement movement in the mail yesterday! Good news, this one actually runs. The other one the balance wheel would move a little, but the second hand wouldn't move, and the timegrapher couldn't find it. I'd like ot think the balance wheel problem was pre-existing, and that I didn't completely break it 馃榾

This one is consistent at +18s/d face up, with 292 degree amplitude @44 lift angle. So this time if I mess it up, I'm actually destroying something functional!
 
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So disassembly went pretty easy! I have a lighted table-mount magnifying glass that made it both harder and easier. I DID have a brain fart and forgot to let down the mainspring, so I managed to let it 'freewheel' from a full wind. I thought about trying to 'catch' it, but didn't want to cause further damage, so let it unwind itself.

However, 1 thing I noticed: this movement is actually quite a bit different in design! I believe the new one is a bit more of a 'premium' looking one.

Old:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RQXCx7LJq5gSb1Vb7
New:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/x6cMmCwP6iB5UNQ1A

Note the different bridge arrangement. The old one had the center wheel on the bridge with the ratchet wheel and the click. Additionally, the escape wheel jewel is on the same bridge as two wheels in the drive train.

The NEW one has a bridge that has the wheel train, including the center wheel, plus a separate cock for the escape wheel. Also note the adjustment of the balance is different, and has an extra part. I DO note that the spring is actually way too small and only engages the lever in the 2nd half of travel.

Overall though, the new one seems like a 'better finished' movement, but most of the parts other than bridges are the same.

I DO note that the old one doesn't match the listing pictures perfectly (https://www.ebay.com/itm/313909495541) and was sold as an ST3600-2, but the new one was sold as an ST36. Both ended up being about the same price though, which is interesting.

I'm taking a break to go back to work, then will attempt a re-assembly.
 
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Note the different bridge arrangement. The old one had the center wheel on the bridge with the ratchet wheel and the click. Additionally, the escape wheel jewel is on the same bridge as two wheels in the drive train.

The NEW one has a bridge that has the wheel train, including the center wheel, plus a separate cock for the escape wheel. Also note the adjustment of the balance is different, and has an extra part. I DO note that the spring is actually way too small and only engages the lever in the 2nd half of travel.
The "old" one is the standard bridge arrangement for the ETA version. The "new" one has that bridge and regulator arrangement because it is commonly used in fake Panerai watches.