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  1. VintageOmega Jan 29, 2013

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    Hi,

    I had this Omega watch listed on eBay and had it removed by someone reporting that dial has been incorrectly refinished and does not match the case and its none Seamaster. Need some help at this point to better understand the issue.


    Here is was my response to eBay:

    First Omega Seamaster was made in 1948. Fact from Omega Museum ( http://www.omegamuseum.com/seamaster )

    The wristwatch in question dates to exact year 1950. According to. Complete Price Guide To Watches. Movement number 12864990 is exact match to year 1950.

    Movement Caliber 351 is used in Omega Seamaster watches. You can also search Omega database for you self here: http://www.omegawatches.com/spirit/history/vintage-omegas/vintage-watches-database

    Attach is also scan from Complete Price Guide To Watches of similar Seamaster case.

    Also lots of vintage Omega watches cases where done by case company outside of Omega factory and Omega company does not have style/reference on this cases.

    01.18.13 114.JPG

    01.18.13 055.JPG

    Scan0065_Page1.png

    NOTE: I have clearly stated in the listing that dial has been refinished & watch just been serviced.
     
  2. ulackfocus Jan 29, 2013

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    The case in the photograph you've indicated with red arrows is NOT the same case as your watch. The dial with all numerals did not come with Seamaster on it as far as I've seen. That was a generic bumper dial usually on the caliber 351, and therefore was reported correctly.

    I could be wrong so wait for other opinions.
     
  3. VintageOmega Jan 29, 2013

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    Hi ulackfocus,

    Thank you for your input, but I did not say its the same case very similar case in my book.
     
  4. VintageOmega Jan 29, 2013

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    Another all numerals Seamaster

    [​IMG]
     
  5. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Jan 30, 2013

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    That second watch is a completely different style dial and is in a Seamaster case.

    The case style on your watch is not a style used for the Seamaster.

    Also there are many inaccuracies in the Complete Price Guide To Watches as well as in the Omega database.

    Sorry, but your watch is simply NOT a Seamaster.
     
  6. BASE1000 Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jan 30, 2013

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    according to the data base of Omega the cal 351 movement was used in the
    CK 2446, CK 2481, CK 2597, CK 2637, G 6518, OJ 2550 and OT 2643.
    but never in any Seamaster :thumbsdown:
     
  7. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Jan 30, 2013

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    that`s a refinished dial as well.......
     
  8. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    Exactly. Somebody did the same thing - put Seamaster on a dial to hopefully sell it for more money.
     
  9. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 30, 2013

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    Your watch looks very nice. You could have the Seamaster removed and sell the watch as a vintage Omega with attractively refinished dial.
     
  10. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    That is correct, but i was pointing out its full numeral dial only. The case in question is G style case, the same case in Complete Price Guide To Watches but with fancy lugs. Below is G style case Seamaster with honeycomb dial on Cal 351 Movement No. 12009105 dates to 1950 how can you argue this one?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    If you're bringing in US made cases then all bets are off. That particular watch with the waffle dial above is a Wadsworth case. There's no way to be sure what Norman Morris did back then. I've seen them add text to a Seamaster dial (De Luxe in totally different fonts that looks hand written), and they're responsible for getting Bienne to put De Ville on Seamaster dials because they thought it would help them market those watches in America.
     
  12. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    The watch that was reported was in US case here is picture of back cover. My point is in 1950s some G-style cases where Seamasters

    01.18.13 059.JPG
     
  13. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    If they're waffle dials odds are better.

    Were you honest in the listing that the watch was redialed?
     
  14. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    Yes, 2 times ones in item specifics "Dial refinished' Ones in description "Refinished Dial"

    Here is one of my correct listings;

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380565097610&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:ITPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
     
  15. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    Oh no, not another "9.5 out of 10" description. :confused: I would normally ask a bunch of questions, like why no close ups of the dial when you show better pictures of the case back, but I think I'm done with this thread after seeing that listing.
     
  16. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    Whats wrong with "9.5 out of 10" description? Its a refinished dial how close to you wanna get?
     
  17. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    Are you SURE you want a critique of that watch? REALLY SURE???? Because I pull no punches and you won't like what I have to say.
     
  18. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    Sure i would like to know: here is picture of the watch:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ulackfocus Jan 30, 2013

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    You're catering to the average eBay buyer who knows nothing of the vintage market. They just want a pretty watch to wear, and maybe show it off at a barbecue or party saying how old it is to their friends that also know nothing other than it's old and they know the brand name. This is a site full of collectors. Nobody here would buy that blue dialed ....... whatever you want to call it.

    First of all, if I see 9.5 out of 10 that means it's retained 95% of it's ORIGINALITY. Collectors will agree that the dial of a vintage watch is 30% to 40% of a watch's value. Let's be on the light side and say that watch is 7 out of 10 for the refinished dial - and that's being generous because it isn't true to the original color. Second, the case has been reworked a bit. The person who did it obviously knew what they were doing, but it isn't original anymore. Again I'll be generous and only knock off 1 mark so it's 6 /10 now. Third, the movement has had some water damage. This is why the original dial's paint was so bad it had to be refinished. I can see the places where the verdigris has been removed from the movement during service. Let's be generous one more time and knock a half point off so it's 5.5 / 10 now - and you'd get a worse assessment from many. The 1 to 10 scale for vintage watches does NOT mean how pretty & shiny it is after redialing & polishing, it refers to how much of the original finish and case crispness the watch retains.

    Long story short: no collector would even look twice at that once they saw the dial, and I don't even mean up close - the blatant color would be offensive.

    If you want to cater to your usual customer who doesn't know any better than it's your business and there certainly are enough buyers to keep you and many other sellers in business. I get it - you can buy ugly watches from decent brands and redo them to make a profit. However, if you want to get TOP dollar (like Alex in Mexico does) you need the cream of the crop in original specimens. The real collectors do look for bargains, but we also will pay double or triple market for a near mint example of an uncommon or legitimately rare watch.
     
    valery70, MKelley and MyVintageOmega like this.
  20. VintageOmega Jan 30, 2013

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    I have sold both original vintage omega watches and restored, the listing above is restored piece i would never say original vintage omega on a restored watch, that sad. 9.5 out of 10 is condition of the watch not originality.