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Ebay selling Question - Unwarranted Return Request

  1. impalla62ss Aug 4, 2019

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    If this is not an appropriate query for the forum, please disregard. I have been selling off a few watches that I no longer wear and have been doing really well on eBay of late. Up to now with very happy customers. Thank you emails even. I am now dealing with a buyer that is requesting a return on a 'no return' sale because he feels the used watchband on the used watch shows minor wear. The band is in decent shape and I am pretty sure this is a case of buyer's remorse. It is a inexpensive quartz duel date, serviced, and sold at a reasonable price. To avoid poor feedback. I offered to send him a replacement strap, and even offered to have him send it to me for installation since he said installing a watch strap can be 'very expensive.' I even nicely explained how the watch was exactly as described.

    Anyway, I hear nobody wins a buyer dispute, but part of me wants to fight this on principal. It is not much money. I have won plenty of valid disputes as a buyer, but valid is the key word. Anyway, has anybody here ever had success with fighting a buyer dispute on eBay? Give in or fight? Thoughts?
     
  2. pIoNeErOfThEnILe Aug 5, 2019

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    you're screwed and will not win this.

    i had a buyer request a watch return over 2 weeks later.

    if i decided to fight him on a lie not only would i receive a neg, i would prolly lose and paypal would take the money back as well. not to mention have the buyer wreck the watch if he was spiteful enough.

    i was just happy to get the watch back without any damage. it did come back without the strap i sent it on though...my moral victory in all of this is he paid to ship it back, and the joker didn't even want to do that.

    ebay buyers can and will hold you hostage if they're greasy enough.
     
  3. S.H. Aug 5, 2019

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    ... and that is why I very exceptionally sell over the Internet.

    I think the easier way out would be to agree to a refund, minus the shipping fees. Buyer will also have to pay for the return shipping ideally. If you can pull this off, you get out easy, and even the principles are safe.

    If you fight... I'm not sure it could end well, this will be precious time wasted on a bogus dispute anyway.
     
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  4. pIoNeErOfThEnILe Aug 5, 2019

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    ebay is set up to benefit the buyer now because so many people were getting ripped off by sellers. but now the scammers have shifted to the buying side.

    it's still prolly best this way. but sellers have little recourse.
     
  5. pIoNeErOfThEnILe Aug 5, 2019

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    i have purchased several watches from europe. seems like it's hit and miss and my results have been poor with italy.

    i really amazes me what people are trying to get away with sending you broken non working watches, and then fight you tooth and nail with them in amazement like it wasn't their fault.

    i guess since they've gotten away with it for so log they will continue to try. but ebay had my back. the fkr didn't even want to pay the shipping to get the watch back.
     
  6. S.H. Aug 5, 2019

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    I never buy a watch on the internet thinking it will be working OK out of the shipping box, so if the watch looks like the pictures I'm happy. For me, ebay watches (and most forum watches) are "raw material", the various risks and problems are on me. I always advise to add the service costs on every buy, systematically, they are not unsignificant. Most sellers (pro or not) are just sending you the things they found "as is"; some may add a polish or a new strap and disguise the faults somewhat, that's all.

    The buyer has lots of rights on ebay, but he has to do his homework too.
     
  7. Wryfox Aug 5, 2019

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    There is no such thing as a "no return" sale. All sales are return eligible sales according to ebay.

    It's simply a cost of doing business on ebay.

    If you fight the return you will lose. You ALMOST NEVER win a "condition" return. Best you can hope for is that he actually does return the item and its in the same shape as before. Hopefully.

    That being said, I have won several times as seller, all because the buyer was so ridiculous in his claims it was simply not believable to the avg person(or ebay).

    If someone requests a return or rebate, I am very nice but demand a picture of the issue as a simple request before approving the return. 90+% will scare off the fools looking for a free lunch. You want simple evidence and they don't have it.

    One example was a portable thermos I sold made from thick aluminum. They claimed there was a dent on the side when received, and suggesting it was still usable but not worth what they paid(ie fishing). I know how I packed it and there is just no way. I asked for a quick pic before I accept any resolution and suddenly the buyer has no camera available. Right.

    You see, a very common scam on the buyer side is to claim some condition issue in an attempt to fish for a partial rebate. They don't want to return it, they just want free money. The implication of course is they will leave you a bad review if you don't give it to them. The folly of this is you have the written evidence of the extortion from their messages, so as a seller you will win all of these if bad feedback is in fact given to you. Ebay knows the tactic well so they are good at seeing it for what it is.

    This scam is VERY VERY common with jewelry so I stopped selling jewelry years ago. Its just not worth it unless you sell for intrinsic value only (ie scrap metal value), so clearly condition doesn't matter. Even so, I had one guy claim one item was not real gold, and thankfully ebay stepped in and required the buyer to have a certified jeweler certify it was NOT real. End of story.
     
  8. impalla62ss Aug 5, 2019

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    Thanks all, refund issued. Not worth the frustration. All the other sales have gone well, so I can't complain, and it paid for my SMP. I am not a flipper, but my taste has changed, and I was happy to break even on most of the stuff cleared out. Between eBay fees and PayPal fees it is a pretty significant chunk, not really worth the cost and frustration for more than an occasional sale. Any future eBay watches may end up with a new $5 cheapo strap installed. Happily the watch box is has room and the remaining watches are keepers.
     
    yande, kkt, larryganz and 1 other person like this.
  9. pIoNeErOfThEnILe Aug 5, 2019

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    i never leave anything chance and assume it doesn't work or need a service. i always ask the seller before i bid/buy if he doesn't specify if it's keeping reasonable time for a mechanical watch in the listing.
     
  10. FreelanceWriter Aug 5, 2019

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    I totally disagree with this. It all depends on whether sellers leave any room for a valid dispute in their description; and, many (if not most) of the listings I see (for everything, not just watches) do leave some room for dispute. If you described a watch as "used," you wouldn't have lost a dispute based on a claim that the watchband showed signs of wear.
     
    CJpickup57 likes this.
  11. CaptainWinsor Aug 5, 2019

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    I would have tried to fight just on principal.
     
  12. impalla62ss Aug 5, 2019

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    The buyer claimed it was not 'leather' as described. No stamp and I did not cut it open to check. He references cracks in his request, but there are no cracks in the photos. I think I wore the watch once since the strap was new, though. The band is in a little worse condition than when I sent it, but still looked pretty good to me. There are a couple of bubbles in the band that were not there when I sent it, which is odd. Not worth worrying over for the amount of money involved. I did want to fight it, but the odds of winning are pretty slim from the responses here, what I see elsewhere online, and from a old OF thread I dug up. https://omegaforums.net/threads/dilemma.6730/
     
  13. FreelanceWriter Aug 5, 2019

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    That's a much different situation than complaining that a used strap shows signs of wear. If your description said it was leather and it's not, that's exactly the kind of opening for a legitimate dispute I was referring to and, yes, you'd probably have lost that dispute. You can be almost certain that you wouldn't have lost a dispute based on "showing signs of wear" and I assure you that it's not the case that sellers can't win dispute claims. You just have to be careful and make sure not to leave any room whatsoever for a valid INAD argument, because eBay will definitely side with the buyer if you do. That's actually what makes it a relatively safe buying platform in the first place, but not because it's "biased" against sellers.
     
  14. CaptainWinsor Aug 5, 2019

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    I hate eBay
     
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  15. mjb Aug 6, 2019

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    I've been held hostage on eBay a couple of times, and it's a real pain (as a seller). I think the last time I listed a watch there I presented it as "authentic" (which it was) but since I couldn't remember if it was a croc or alligator strap, I put something like "the strap is authentic Rolex made of some type of leather, probably croc or alligator" which gave me enough wiggle room.

    eBay then proceeded to screw me out of a reduced final value fee, which is a whole different topic...
     
  16. FlyingSnoopy Aug 6, 2019

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    I do not use eBay anymore
    Too many scammers and really not worth the effort
    Cheers
     
  17. Rochete Aug 6, 2019

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    I buy on ebay but I've never sold anything nor do I plan to. I have a 100% pos feedback but I realise that, as a buyer, I could've screwed a few sellers if I wanted to. Ebay isn't seller- friendly. Only two sellers attempted to screw me, unsuccessfully. Coincidentally, both from the same country.
     
  18. JwRosenthal Aug 6, 2019

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    I have a zero feedback and nationality restrictions in place when I sell (never sold a watch) I also use only the eBay int’l shipping service regardless of what they are charging (and get complaints on that) if you don’t like the terms, don’t bid on my shit.
    I have learned the hard way and I get hate mail from protential bidders who have been blocked due to their country of origin, but it’s a necessity when you notice trends in who’s scamming.
     
  19. vintagemillenial Aug 7, 2019

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    As a buyer on eBay you have all the power even if you are in the wrong unfortunately.
     
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  20. DManzaluni Aug 7, 2019

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    There is a little known fact about buyer disputes, which is that nobody bothers to look at the facts when taking a decision. Except in the most blindingly obvious of cases, ebay ALWAYS lets the buyer win, probably because of the ebay guarantee.

    They then pay to ship the item back, which is when the fun starts. I ALWAYS video opening the box and always take lots of photos.

    Then appeal the decision.

    Ebay then looks at the facts and usually rules in favour of whoever calls first when the item is delivered. It is important to CALL and speak to someone sympathetic in the Resolution Center. If you sense treachery, hang up and call again.

    There is a back stop in that if they do rule in favour of the scammer, I have had some luck complaining to the local authority about being told by ebay or paypal to return money in MY account involuntarily to a scammer/fraudster.

    [No, I havent tried diplomatically threatening them with a State Financial Authority complaint]

    You will usually end up with the money and the item: The scammer will rarely choose to pay for return shipping of what is now HIS item after the dust has settled!take

    Worst case scenario, ebay happily takes the loss, you keep the item, they return you 50% of the money and you take a profit on reselling the item.

    Oh, remember to check that the scammer doesn't think he won and can leave negative feedback! If he does, ebay will remove it.
     
    Edited Aug 7, 2019