Forums Latest Auctions Members
  1. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    I imagine there are other threads which address this issue, but I don't see any.
    We all know that when an item reaches a certain level of value, counterfeiters decide that it is worthy of their attention. I have seen a few attempts at bezel inserts recently that look nice but are not exact reproductions of the DON Speedmasters bezel, which recently reached a new high-water mark at 4K usd. It's not now a matter of if very good fakes will be made, it's a matter of when, and unlike watches, there are few details to examine in order to find fakes among the legitimate vintage items. The originals could be imaged and near exact copies produced to mimic the font style and exact layout. Once these fakes begin to emerge, the DON market is going to be a real mess. There may already be quality fakes circulating. We all know some are clever enough to inflict a certain amount of damage in order to make items appear vintage. The process would be easy enough for a child once fakes are produced. I guess I'm just trying to get ahead of what is almost certainly a future problem. Thoughts?
     
    nonuffinkbloke, Mad Dog and Badwolf like this.
  2. dialstatic

    dialstatic Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    925
    Likes
    1,719
    If at any point the fakes become indiscernable from the real thing even by the experts (...and it's not a given this will happen, but it's far from impossible either), then it no longer matters that it's fake - it's real for all intents and purposes. What will matter, is that in that event (1) supply increases, and (2) demand decreases as people will be scared of buying a fake. As a result, prices will go down.
     
  3. Maganator

    Maganator Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    944
    Likes
    1,307
    Would Omega ever consider a remaking that bezel and selling it to watch makers as they do other parts?
     
  4. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    More than likely excellent fakes are already on some of our Speedmasters. There is too much money to be made for dishonest people to ignore the potential profit. And these would be much easier to create than a fake Submariner or Daytona, which are faked by the pound. I'm sorry the new girl has opinions, but I assure you, they are based on many years of experience accumulated by myself and my husband.
     
    watchyouwant, Larry S and Mad Dog like this.
  5. Badwolf

    Badwolf Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    194
    Likes
    211
    It would be nice to see something bring the prices down, the people that really appreciate the watches are being priced out. I'm not saying fake parts is a good thing, just that 4k for a bezel is ridiculous. I get the feeling vintage watches are being invested in much like classic cars, no room for the enthusiast.

    Hopefully it would be pretty obvious if a lot of good condition fake bezels hit the market, they are not plentiful.
     
  6. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    The people who paid thousands for bezels would probably be unhappy, but it truly would be good to get back to a place where cal 321 owners could love their watches despite having a bezel issue. As for fakes being obvious....we should assume some damage will be added to make them more convincing. The saddest part will be when truly vintage and near mint examples are suspected wrongfully.
     
  7. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    9,934
    Likes
    21,795
    Many years of experience led to snapping them up when they hit $500 ;)
     
    Edited Jan 20, 2017
  8. Badwolf

    Badwolf Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    194
    Likes
    211
    Me too, I wear them like bangles ;)
     
    dialstatic, cicindela and Mad Dog like this.
  9. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    We do have a few in reserve, but I applaud anyone who saw this market coming and got ahead of it. We certainly didn't.
     
    Etp095 and nonuffinkbloke like this.
  10. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    18,558
    Likes
    14,802
    I'd love Omega to just end it by making them again, that and number 6 endlinks but I doubt it's ever going to happen.
     
    Etp095, nonuffinkbloke and g-boac like this.
  11. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    9,934
    Likes
    21,795
    So here is a tip but don't tell anyone.

    These puppies are not going to last forever :whistling::whistling: they may be replacements but in years from now you will only be able to knock on Omega,s door for them

    http://www.ofrei.com/page343.html
     
  12. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    Part of me agrees that it would be nice for Omega to solve this problem for us, but the history buff in me would be saddened. As for no,. 6 ends, I would be completely ok with Omega producing more of those.
     
  13. SpeedyPhill

    SpeedyPhill asked ages ago but no longer interested Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    2,294
    Likes
    3,462
    There's some hope that the DON bezel might come back on a LE Speedmaster (e.g. 50 years Apollo 11).
    However I know only a bunch Speedmasters collectors who bought honest watches and need no replacement bezel ;)
     
  14. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    9,004
    Likes
    22,487
    There are already at least two sources of passable aftermarket no.6 endlinks. Omega doesn't need to make them. Even if they did, they would not be valued the same as vintage ones and I'd bet there would be differences - subtle maybe but still differences.

    As for bezels, I'm not sure that having omega remake them would change prices for vintage ones either. It might allow you to have a watch that has a bezel that looks the same, but it's not the same, imho. And there are already fake ones out there anyway. One day, maybe. And one day 3 D printing will make movement parts a non issue too...

    Look at what theyve done with alpha hands. They make modern versions, but they are not the same as the originals. Why would endlinks or bezels be any different?

    Honestly, for me, it would take the fun out of it. Isn't it the hunt that's fun? Like a treasure hunt, much of the pleasures is the rush of the find. How boring would it be to just walk into an OB and place an order..?

    And anyway, why would Omega do it? How many would they sell? Would it be worth the investment when theyre actually in the business of selling new watches, mostly with ceramic, lumed bezels?
     
  15. dialstatic

    dialstatic Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    925
    Likes
    1,719
    Yeah but we'd have to wait 2 years for that. Which 2017 watch could a DON bezel be on? The Apollo I fire 50th seems a bit of a grim occasion for a LE...maybe a 50th anniversary Apollo IV / first Saturn V launch? That seems more appropriate (even though it was unmanned). Or what about a 45th anniversary Apollo XVII? A 'last watch on the moon' with a less...shall we say interesting dial than the 40th anniversary one? It'd break tradition (if I'm not mistaken the previous XVII was a 30th anniversary?), but it would make for a great tribute to mr. Cernan...
     
    Edited Jan 20, 2017
  16. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    18,558
    Likes
    14,802
    It's too short a time for them to get an Apollo 17 watch in the works by Basel if it isn't already but he was a brand ambassador too since 2000 so I wouldn't be totally shocked if we saw another 17 or another last man on the moon.

    One thing I always remember about him is that not only is he the last man on the moon but he's also the fastest man on earth and the moon, holding the all time speed record on re-entry from Apollo 10 in addition to the lunar land speed record when he took the rover 40% above its maximum designed top speed.

    The first of those he had no direct control over but any car guy knows that second one he was thinking "where's a good hill with no rocks on it? hold my beer".
     
  17. tempusfugit861

    tempusfugit861 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    199
    Likes
    351
    No offense, but are there car guys in Australia? Are there cars? :(
     
  18. abrod520

    abrod520 Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    5,853
    Likes
    17,768
    There are but they're all upside-down
     
  19. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    9,004
    Likes
    22,487
    and when you turn the steering wheel to the right, the car goes to the left. It's messed up.
     
  20. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Jan 20, 2017

    Posts
    5,386
    Likes
    14,644
    Aussie and Kiwi cars have turning signals that activate windshield wipers.
     
    nonuffinkbloke, Archer, Trev and 2 others like this.