Let's say a person with above average knowledge of the market had $500,000 and 50 hours a week to devote soley to the business of buying and selling vintage timepieces.

Everything else being equal (no rent, no insurance, etc., etc) do you think that person could produce an income of say $50,000 per year, working under the above parameters?


I chose 500k because that amount of capital would exclude you from very few potential watch purchases.

Do you think more capital would give you more leverage to able to make higher percentage returns?

 

I don't know, you'd have to consult an expert like ev3rclear.

 

Pretty sure Andrew Shear and Eric Ku (to name just two) do alright at it ...

 

Vintage takes time man. You need to know who what when where and having a reputation where your former clients feed you watches and buy from you too. Once you are well known business finds you. Also you need to learn a ton about so many pieces you need friends and colleagues to help as no one person knows it all. Gluck!

 

Okay, let's see if I can be serious and not make any puns or jokes that would interfere with the message......

Yes, it can be done..... but only if you have legitimate watch repair skills and access to parts in addition to the knowledge of vintage like some of us have. Not above average, but exceptional knowledge. I've actually considered it. I would service as a regular watchmaker AND sell watches I bought cheap and brought up to speed. I figured I had the knowledge of what was correct or not for a few brands (obviously Longines and Omega to name 2 of the handful of manufacturers), had enough contacts to help with parts (who, of course, I would pay or compensate in some way), and was going to apprentice with a watchmaker. The problems were myriad though, not limited too:

1) Access to parts. The Swiss are tightening their iron fist grip on this portion of the industry. It's not my speculation, it's a documented fact.

2) Jack of All Trades = Master of None. The temptation to go into brands I'm not comfortable with as a collector because of the potential profit (read: Rolex) could very well lead to big losses.

3) Overhead. Do you know how much some of those fing lubricants COST?!?!?!

4) Whackedoutedness. I know a few watchmakers. The chemicals and constant work on minute pieces will get to you.

5) Why f up a perfectly good hobby by turning it into a business?

Oooooo, a Mike Tyson uppercut!

 

Average knowledge of the market won't cut it. If you think all you need is capitol to make a living selling vintage watches you don't understand what it takes to run a successful business. 50 hours a week is part time for any business...the last time I spent 50 hrs in a week running my business was while I was on vacation

 

Have you done any serious money in any other business? If the answer is yes, then the chances that you could do it with vintage watches is good.

Seriously, being really good at business and downright mediocre with watches (but conscious of your limits) will beat years of experience with watches any day. You can do some outstanding flips if you know your stuff, but you would lack the consistency of bringing money every day, and the knowledge required to keep in touch with the pulse of your business.

 

I disagree...you need both. You can have all the business sense in the world, but if you aren't an expert in all things vintage watches you will lose your ass in 5 minutes.

 

Thanks!! ,,,but I suffer no delusions that I would have the discipline or drive to make money buying and selling watches.

I'm glad you replied because I know this is more than just a hobby for you. George - you strike me more of a dealer than a vintage guy. I know there's a distinction and I think there's a difference between a vintage trader and what you do; is that accurate?

 

Of course it is possible, but your asking for trouble if you choose to begin now. It's tantamount to having become a Real Estate "investor" for the first time in 2006 – easy game, until it isn't.

 

Yes. As a casual observer I totally notice that there exists a bunch of guys who treat this place like a free f*cking whorehouse. Ironically, George is one of a couple (heck, it may just be him) "members" who are active sellers but are also true members of the community. You can tell George is a solid dude.

I hope that *you guys* can avoid becoming bitter and cynical as I would hate for the vibe of this place to change much. It's probably really hard.

It drives me nuts when I see certain guys post 40 watches for sale every day and never so much as say hello to anyone. It's like they're afraid you're going to notice them and ask them for money...lol

 

Don't forget Norm / X350 XJR.

 

Yes, absolutely. There are others but I singled out George because it's my impression that watches are his primary thing. Mostly everyone else who sells seems like a hobbyist - enthusiast.


Just my unsolicited opinion but I think you would do well if you turned your hobby into a pure business. If you had a good watchmaker as a partner and focused all your energy (which seems pretty boundless to me lol) on the watch business, I'd bet you'd do well. Very well, in fact.

 

Odd that you would say you essentially have to be a watchmaker to make this work, as the vast majority of vintage watch dealers are not watchmakers, and most watchmakers are not watch dealers. Watchmaking and watch dealing are two completely different skill sets, and actually don't have a lot to do with each other. Most dealers would employ a watchmaker to do "trade work" for them. This is the kind of work I won't do, as what you get paid is 1/2 of what the work is worth (if you are lucky) and there are a host of other issues that make this not great work as a watchmaker...but that's another subject...

With your other points:

1 - Absolutely true.

2 - If you are a good watchmaker, there's not much you won't be able to work on, of course given that you have solved item 1. However you may choose to eliminate some brands or types of watches as a pure business decision. I am going through a process of evaluating what I take in and I will be making some changes - driven of course by health issues and the desire not to "cark it" as my wife would say, while sitting at my bench...

3 - Oils are dirt cheap compared to what proper equipment costs mate.

4 - I know a lot more watchmakers than you do I can assure you. Most are well adjusted people who love what they do - it's rare that it is just a job for someone as I have seen stated here by someone. It requires patience, skill, and more patience.

BTW - I refuse to use a lot of the chemicals that can cause health issues, so those in use at the bench by a lot of watchmakers - if you work properly they are not really needed. You won't see a ground glass jar of One Dip on my bench for example...and not just because I don't want to breath the fumes. It's a pretty crappy cleaner compared to doing the job right in a cleaning machine.

5 - Good question. Taking a hobby you love and turning into your primary means of making a living will inevitably suck some of the enjoyment out of that activity. It's a much different thing going from repairing a few watches for some friends, to doing it for a living. I could make much more money working for a large company as an engineer again, but even with the downsides of running your own business, I still enjoy this more (although I do miss doing the big engineering projects I once did).

Interesting thread...

Cheers, Al

 

I agree that you don't need to be a watchmaker to be a dealer.

My mum's an antique jewellery dealer and has numerous pieces that need sizing, repairing, stones replacing etc each week. She has nowhere near the skills to do this herself and sends this to her working jeweller for the work. She does however have an outstanding knowledge of the market, gemstones, history of jewellery etc, as well as contacts.

I'd assume the same could apply to being a vintage watch dealer.

 

Vintage watch dealing is not like modern pieces. You can't simply find them in plentiful amounts in good condition and you have to have many places to source them.

I started off as a collector before dabbling in dealing that's why I enjoy posting and chatting here as I am fascinated with the pieces I collect and trade.

I don't think you need to know how to service a watch to deal but knowing who is trustworthy and does a good job when needed is very important. You can also buy watches and they turn out needing a lot of work which can put you in the hole but you take risks with any business.

Not all watch dealers make it to the level of some of the ones mentioned above.

 

Great expertise in here on this subject.. I think too many newbs buy a few vintage watches when they start and immediately look at the dealers and think they can do that too. But boy are they so wrong, and it shows if they try. It takes years and years, and even then you have to know people, sources, etc. It's a lot more hard work than most people realize and if they ever got into it, I think it would really test their collecting hobby mindset to see if they "Really" want to still do what they say.