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Do I have a 105.012-65 or 145.012-67? Please help, it's driving me crazy!

  1. whizzz

    whizzz Apr 23, 2016

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    Hi guys

    This is my first ever post on any watch forum so please forgive my numptiness in the terminology I may use as I am new to all this. I have tried to do as much reading around the forum as I can for research so please bear with me if you would be so kind.
    I am looking for help to identify what model speedy I am in possession of since my friend bequeathed it to me before his demise in 2009.
    I seem to be getting conflicting views from a lot of people but that may be them trying to get the price reduced since I decided to test the waters and put it up for sale on a few 'sell your watch/omega here' sites.

    This watch was given as a gift to my friend in 1968 who kept it in its box for many, many years having only worn it twice.
    He told me that it was 'lucky' as it was the model that the Astronauts wore on the moon, which he wouldn't have known when it was originally given to him. I just know he loved all things space and gadgety.
    He sent it to Switzerland for a service, which he was quoted just short of £500 for before bequeathing it to me in 2009 shortly before his passing. I am the only person to have opened the case back as I purchased the proper tool to do so to be able to take pictures of the serial no. and prove its mechanical authenticity.
    I had done my research and knew that the Aldrin (and now confirmed Armstrong) watch was the 105.012 speedy so I was pretty pleased when I saw the serial no. (starting 2208) matched the widely available references for the
    105.012-64/65 so I just assumed everything was as it should be. That's was until somebody asked me for the caseback stamp reference.
    My friend will never have known this but it looks as though in Biel/Bienne they had switched out the caseback, replacing it with another from a 1967 model. I have read that these things have happened over the years, or maybe it was a genuine mistake as there was no need to do this and he wasn't advised of this at the time.
    This got me a bit confused because as far as I'm now aware 1967 models would be starting with serial no.s in the 24M range.

    The watch is in incredible condition for its age and the lumina seems to be standing up to the test of time in comparison to others I've seen. The 321 mechs look beautiful and I can honestly say I have not seen too many in as good condition anywhere else.
    I also found out recently the box I was given the watch in isn't the original box so I guess my friend just gave it to me in a spare omega box.
    I am in a wheelchair and decided to wear it out once in 2009 and was pushed up against a pool table as someone tried to squeeze past a gap that wasn't there resulting in the original Hesalite crystal getting the lightest of grazes along with the strap. These are pretty insignificant and will easily buff out in the right hands in a matter of seconds.
    I took it to Goldsmiths jewellers in Southampton (official omega dealer) recently who sent it off to London to do some investigations on the watch and they concurred that the watch is all genuine with period/serial no. etc.
    It has to be anyway as its been in its box for what's coming up for nearly 50 years now except the 3 wearings mentioned.
    I would obviously love to keep the watch but unfortunately I need to raise funds for a serious operation and am trying to find a solution.
    I can't really wear the watch for worry of any serious damage and I don't really like knowing it's just sitting in its box when I know someone out there would be absolutely over the moon to own this beautiful piece, whatever model it is.
    I would like to know what model I am dealing with if and when I decide to finally let it go.

    I hope everything I've said here goes by the rules of allowed posting and the pics are also ok and correct. I'm sure someone will let me know if not.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks for listening to my story.

    I will now attempt to upload some pics. Wish me luck

    Regards
    Steve
     
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  2. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 23, 2016

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    145.012 as it says on the caseback
     
  3. OmegaCal66

    OmegaCal66 Apr 23, 2016

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    What's the history of the bracelet?
     
  4. sky21

    sky21 Apr 23, 2016

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    Well something doesn't quite make sense there if the watch has sat in a drawer for 50 years and only been worn 3 times. Sending it to Omega in 2009 for service would not have resulted in them putting that caseback on the watch. If they indeed replaced it they would have put their service caseback on it which would say 145.0012. Also, you have a new bracelet and end links from the 90's , where did that come from? The pushers appear to be the larger style from the 145.012, and the hands have been replaced with new luminova hands I think. Maybe there is a little more to the story of the watch than your friend told you? My vote would also be 145.012.
     
  5. Dgercp

    Dgercp Apr 23, 2016

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    Serial is of a 105.012 , not a 145.012. Case looks 145.012. Hands replaced as mentioned. Crown a replacement.
    And boy, that balance cock looks awefully shiny!
     
  6. marturx

    marturx Apr 23, 2016

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    To me that is a possibly put together watch. Serial to early for the reference. Service replacement hands, crown and dustcover. The key to the riddle is an Extract from the Archives. I wonder what it would reveal? Seamaster chrono?

    On the bright side; dial looks good, case too, aswell as the tachy ring. The bracelet is quite valuable in itself. Fits a LE Speedy from 1999 I believe.
     
  7. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Apr 23, 2016

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    Bracelet looks like a fairly standard 1479 from the 90s
     
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  8. robocaspar

    robocaspar Apr 23, 2016

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    Lots of question marks on this watch
     
  9. whizzz

    whizzz Apr 23, 2016

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    Blimey thanks for the replies guys. Wasn't expecting so much so quick.
    I don't know if it's helped as yet as this is the first time I have had any input like this, so thanks for your views thus far.
    Sky21 seems to think a lot has been changed? I do hope that is not the case.

    My friend had nothing to gain by withholding info from me. I would have been happy no matter what he left me. He was a very dear sweet old man who never messed about with fakery or the sort. He would travel 300 miles just to get a pair of shoes from a specific shop because he liked true authentic craftsmanship.
    Obviously he may have sent the watch off for services or repairs in the past but that doesn't add up if so many parts have been replaced. He was very organised, to quite an ocd level and really looked after his stuff.

    No one until today has said anything looked as though it had bed replaced, and that includes being sent off to an omega specialist for assessment. They were of the opinion I had a 105.012-65 on my hands so you can understand my immediate surprise to some replies, so sorry if my reaction is a bit defensive. I really will try to look at this objectively.

    Does it really look that bad?
    That's quite upsetting and confusing if so.

    Please don't hold back though if you really do know your stuff. I guess I have to learn I am going to get all sorts of opinions. Hopefully the more comments, the better picture I will eventually build up, so keep them coming.
    I will try to include everyone in my replies and answer all questions asked.

    Is it not possible the serial no. is correct and the caseback has changed?
    Most of you guys so far think the case is a 145.012?
    Why didn't goldsmiths jewellers mention any of this to me when it got assessed?

    I will open the bracelet clasp and see if I can find any more details on the inside. Apart from that I can't give any more info on it.

    I am bed bound unfortunately awaiting yet another spinal operation so I don't have immediate access to everything but my partner will be home soon and I will get her to pass me the watch.

    Are there any particular photos you want me to take closer ones of that would help?

    Thanks again for comments so far. Good and bad. Much appreciated. I will check back in a while.

    Thanks

    Steve
     
  10. Javi22

    Javi22 Apr 23, 2016

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    Movement 22xxx from a early 105.012, Case / Caseback from a 145.012 and Bracelet from the 90s.....::confused2::

    Dial and DON looks nice, Hands replacements ::confused2::

    confused :taunt:
     
  11. EtherMan

    EtherMan Apr 23, 2016

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    If you get an Extract from the Archives from Omega for the movement serial number, it will help clear it all up. I'm not an Omega expert, but for Patek, it's only about 100 CHF. I imagine it's the same for Omega. I know they're available from Omega as I've seen them posted around. That would be money well spent, and perhaps could lead you to "correct" any changes to maximize the value of your watch for resale.
     
  12. whizzz

    whizzz Apr 23, 2016

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    Yes you can imagine how confused I must be now

    dsio you are correct the bracelet is a 1479.

    I am starting to believe I may not have had the full picture from my friend and I think he may have worn it more than I imagined (and serviced). Maybe I just wasn't listening properly. He did waffle on a bit, bless him.

    I managed to do a couple more close ups.
    What's the thinking on the hands? Is it not possible they are the original?

    Thanks
     
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  13. Kringkily

    Kringkily Omega Collector Apr 23, 2016

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    More than likely the caseback was swapped out during a service a long time ago. The hands and bracelet are definitely modern. The clean bezel and case leads me to believe the bracelet would have not been stretched out and replaced at some time during service so it was done so at request. Now your friend may have his story mixed up but none the less with the right parts you can restore this beauty.

    Also your pushers and crown are service too along with the inner dust cover
     
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  14. whizzz

    whizzz Apr 23, 2016

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    Thanks kringkily

    Nice to have something constructive to go on.

    And to the guys mentioning the extract from the archives (when I can get a few quid together lol). I'm trying to get some, not pay more out. But I guess it may be the answer in the end.

    Very disappointed none of this was mentioned by the jewellers assessment. Maybe they didn't even bother. I thought the extract from the archives was what they were doing on my behalf to be honest.

    I feel I may have to let the watch go soon due to my unfortunate circumstances. Time is not really on my side.
    I would want it to go to a proper home though.

    See how it goes.
     
  15. sky21

    sky21 Apr 23, 2016

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    The Extract will be the only thing to absolutely tell you where the movement came from. Whether or not it is a Seamaster movement or it was originally a 105.012 Speedmaster. The watch doesn't look bad, it's just had a lot of parts replaced over the years. If you want to sell it for good money you will need the Extract to confirm the movement since there are so many question marks with all the other non-original parts. The bezel and the dial look fantastic and appear to be original, they are the best features of the watch.
     
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  16. robocaspar

    robocaspar Apr 23, 2016

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    Why be disappointed. Your friend left you a great piece. I would wear it and enjoy the gift as it would have lot of sentimental value.

    If you really want to, the incorrect parts can be tracked down with some effort.
     
  17. EtherMan

    EtherMan Apr 23, 2016

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    There's nothing wrong with a cobbled together watch, or a watch with a bunch of service parts. They still look great, and you can still sell it for a good sum if you need to. The problem is that you probably won't have the time or money to do the research, source original parts, and get it up to speed to maximize its value to a collector anyway. Someone buying it as is will be taking a chance and the price will reflect that. Maybe your best bet, if you're really in a rush, is to just put it up for auction as is and let the chips fall where they fall. If you can swing it, the archive will be worth the investment at resale, unless the movement isn't from a Speedmaster. But as it was a gift, you'll be ahead no matter what, and it is what it is.
     
  18. dennisthemenace

    dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Apr 23, 2016

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    I hate to say it, but the good parts, ie bezel, dial, movement (if confirmed speedmaster) and caseback could be worth more than the watch as it is complete.
     
  19. whizzz

    whizzz Apr 23, 2016

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    I'm just disappointed with the jewellers supposed expert assessment robospar.
    It got sent off to the experts in London and they had it for nearly 2 months before basically concurring it was a 105.012-65.
    They didn't say anything about new parts being added at all. In fact I just think they sent it back without anyone looking at it.
    They seemed very vague when I finally collected it again.

    And as for wearing it...... I'd love to, but as I mentioned in my original post I'm in a wheelchair, and I did wear it once. Never again. Wheelchairs and nice watches don't go together, believe me.

    I really need to raise money for my operation and like I say time is against me on that front but I would love nothing more than to make it big and strong like it was when it was born but I fear I would not be around to enjoy it if I did that.

    I can't wear it and thought it would be a good idea to maybe give it a good home and let someone else enjoy it for what it is/could be. Thanks for your view tho robo.

    Also thanks for your constructive comments, sky and ether, much appreciated.

    I may have to just do the extract when I can and see where it leads or like you say take a chance on eBay? Would that be best or on the sales section on the forum?

    Thanks guys
     
  20. MikiJ

    MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Apr 23, 2016

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    Oh that bezel..Worth the price of admission:)