Do fakes have serials and papers?

Posts
60
Likes
73
After passing on a Seamaster GMT (I think it was legit, but the buyer was sketchy), I figured i'd try to educate myself a bit more on ID'ing a fake if/when I come across another watch I want.

Just curious - if I stick with watches that have serial numbers with matching warranty cards, does that almost guarantee authenticity? Or are those faked easily as well? Anything else to look at?
 
Posts
13,388
Likes
31,527
Or are those faked easily as well?

Yes. They have become very sophisticated.
 
Posts
324
Likes
226
Just curious - if I stick with watches that have serial numbers with matching warranty cards, does that almost guarantee authenticity? Or are those faked easily as well? Anything else to look at?

Those are the easiest to fake, and yes fake/dubious box/papers are aplenty. Of course, in person you could spot them fairly easily - but most important of all is know what you are buying, and buy from a reputable seller, ideally one who will accept returns. Best to stick to Sales section here if you are new to Omega or to a particular model. Read before you buy.
 
Posts
7,323
Likes
58,258
It’s sometimes the case that a batch of fake watches and documentation will all have the same serial number - it’s a mass production industry
 
Posts
1,611
Likes
2,352
There are expensive fakes nowadays—they cost several hundred dollars—that can fool even pretty discerning people. I saw a video of a Patek one that was probably a low-four-figure fake that was almost impossible to distinguish in a side-by-side. This is why Omega’s innovations (coaxial escapements and spirate regulators, etc) can be reassuring—makes it harder for the scamsters to replicate.

Anyway, put it this way: if you can produce a truly convincing fake of a luxury watch, how much will you struggle to produce a fake warranty card?
 
Posts
2,551
Likes
4,791
Oh HO! how about fake hang tags? Huh? Guess those hang tags are necessary after all

and you know what else they don't fake? that RED bag. That's right; complete sets have never looked more authentic.
 
Posts
9,569
Likes
15,082
I’ve handled dozens of superficially convincing fake Omega watches, but generally they are sold loose not as full sets. I’ve not yet seen any with properly believable fake cards that stand up to close scrutiny, the cards are nowhere near as carefully faked. As such it does pay to study real cards well. There are other brands though where dodgy cards are less easy to spot so that isn't a universal comment. Regardless you should never depend solely upon collateral as real cards can be added to fake watches with the stroke of a pen in some cases, it’s the watch that matters.
Edited:
 
Posts
2,112
Likes
3,656
Of course even amongst genuine hang tags…..there begs the question is it the original string or a service replacement?
 
Posts
33
Likes
60
This is a worry I've been having as I look for older model Seamster Diver's (2531, 2220.80 etc). The issue is that the only Seamaster I've handled is an OB. I'm looking at different dealers selling on Chrono24 and watch shops in NYC, where I'm located. But in a perfect world wouldn't want to rely only on photos.

Would it be reasonable to request that a watch dealer remove the caseback to inspect the movement? My thought is that the finishing on an authentic movement is going to be relatively easy to distinguish from even a good fake.
 
Posts
1,611
Likes
2,352
Not an unreasonable request, but one that many sellers won’t comply with, and that’s not any indication that the watches they’re selling aren’t perfectly genuine. Any time you open the caseback you’re dramatically increasing the odds that something could go wrong. At the very least you could be admitting moisture or dust. Also, after replacing the caseback, for the watch to be optimally wearable, it will need to be pressure tested for water resistance. (Gaskets may need to be replaced for it to pass.) All to say, it’s a lot of risk and trouble, and a totally legit seller might just prefer to wait for a less concerned buyer.

Better just to filter out listings that don’t already include movement pics, or purchase (even at a slight premium) from a seller you know you can trust. Or rely on eBay’s authenticity guarantee: they open and inspect and reseal for water resistance.

All that said, Omega’s movement finishing (especially on the older movements) is nothing very special. These are mass-produced engines, sometimes based on outsourced sturdy workhorses—not hand-finished pieces of art. (Not dissing Omega at all: have you ever looked at a typical Rolex movement? Positively hideous thing.)
 
Posts
9,569
Likes
15,082
This is a worry I've been having as I look for older model Seamster Diver's (2531, 2220.80 etc). The issue is that the only Seamaster I've handled is an OB. I'm looking at different dealers selling on Chrono24 and watch shops in NYC, where I'm located. But in a perfect world wouldn't want to rely only on photos.

Would it be reasonable to request that a watch dealer remove the caseback to inspect the movement? My thought is that the finishing on an authentic movement is going to be relatively easy to distinguish from even a good fake.
Your problem is a dealer might legitimately not be keen to remove the back on a sealed dive watch as it will need pressure testing every time he does that adding to his hassle and overheads. Buy the seller and check everything out as best you can. None of the fakes of the models you are looking for are externally perfect so can be detected with skill, practice and research.

Cross posted with same point above it seems!
 
Posts
121
Likes
207
An example from C24 :


Nice 2541.80 Tritium with papers boxes, certified by the C24's service and all. The 5 stars seller saying from 1999... Number and Date blurred of course. A sticker from who knows at the Omega AD's place. And the price is hight 😀

The seller is probably good faith but the papers doesn't match. At worse, if the numbers matches, the watch is a franken (older dial).

Photos, papers, certifications are sometimes even not sufficient to be sure.
 
Posts
1,611
Likes
2,352
The question of whether papers add value is always open. (Recently debated on the forum.) But plain old logic can close the door on the question of whether having papers somehow authenticates a watch. Obviously not.
 
Posts
121
Likes
207
Papers don't authenticates a watch but it helps. In that case the most probable scenario is that the papers were faked in order to bumped up the price.

But I can find you other exemples on how papers can helps authenticate a watch.



You'r not sensible to that but it's all original. Bezel, Hands, Dial. Everything matches even the 02/1996's receipt that confirm that the watch was produced in 1995. Like the asymmetric 3 of the 300 indicates. It worth it's premium price.

A funny one go your way. The watch is not necessarily a fake but there is better gamble in life 😀