Distasteful but interesting to watch nerds (Hitler’s LeCoultre)

[Omegafanman]

I think we end up on a very slippery slope if we make laws to stop people selling things which they own because of its history (assuming it is not fake). I also think asking anyone to give up a life changing sum of money on a matter of conscience is a very big ask (and try getting a corporation to walk away from a payday). I like WW2 aircraft but someone was once offended by that and told me that a Spitfire is just a killing machine with friendly decals on it. There is a lot of offensive stuff and dreadful ideologies around (as there always have been). We need to build societies, cultures and educational systems which defend against them - banning stuff should always be a last resort. I also see a lot of good reenactors who do a grand job keeping memories alive and of course they do buy German equipment and watches. I do think the Hitler watch thing is a bit more of a unique sitution (like his ashes / body) and I would feel a bit cursed to have it near me. A museum (with the proper context and education) does sound the right place if it is a genuine item which now sounds in doubt.

Edited: Jul 15, 2022

 

[Scooterino36]

This is a real-life horcrux if I've ever seen one. I vote to destroy it.

 

[Jones in LA]

Archer

Hopefully it goes to a museum of some sort (and displayed in proper context), rather than in private hands.

The perfect museum would have been the Museum of Torture, at Balboa Park in San Diego. It operated from about 2012 until 2016. I imagine it closed down because it was judged as being too distasteful (which it was...I visited it on a whim and regretted it). It has been replaced by an exhibit called "Cannibals: Myth & Reality".

 

[Walrus]

Damn I don’t even buy 666 dive watches only because it gives me a weird feeling. I can’t even fathom wanting to mess around with this.

 

[Dan S]

Omegafanman

I think we end up on a very slippery slope if we make laws to stop people selling things which they own because of its history (assuming it is not fake). I also think asking anyone to give up a life changing sum of money on a matter of conscience is a very big ask (and try getting a corporation to walk away from a payday). I like WW2 aircraft but someone was once offended by that and told me that a Spitfire is just a killing machine with friendly decals on it. There is a lot of offensive stuff and dreadful ideologies around (as there always have been). We need to build societies, cultures and educational systems which defend against them - banning stuff should always be a last resort. I also see a lot of good reenactors who do a grand job keeping memories alive and of course they do buy German equipment and watches. I do think the Hitler watch thing is a bit more of a unique sitution (like his ashes / body) and I would feel a bit cursed to have it near me. A museum does sound the right place if it is a genuine item which now sounds in doubt.

I want to point out that you posted this as a response to @Shabbaz who did not mention laws or bans at all (although I think it is illegal in some places), so you are putting words in his mouth and making a Straw Man argument. Personally, I disagree with the implied premise that because there is a lot of money to be made, ethics and morals should be ignored, and sellers should be given a pass. I absolutely think that it's fair game to ask people to forgo profiting from offensive items, and to tell them our opinion of it.

 

[watchyouwant]

That whole story is BS. Just a Fake. Like Hitler's Diaries, many years ago , were a Fake. Just making money. Unfortunately there are still enough Idiots out there, who keep this kind of BS alive...... And that is the sad part of our present.

 

[gbesq]

Tony C.

I have to say that I find this to be a slippery slope issue. Obviously I am not defending Hitler, but where does one draw the line? An enormous number of innocent Iraqi civilians were killed or maimed in a war of choice, based almost entirely on false pretenses. Should collectibles related George W. Bush or Colin Powell, etc., also be off-limits?

I understand the slippery slope argument that you are making and it is certainly true that war crimes and atrocities have not been limited to the Nazis. That being said, I'm not in favor of this watch being held in private hands any more than I'm in favor of private ownership of artifacts from Hiroshima, Nagaski or Dresden. Things like this belong in museums and should be displayed in the proper context so that we never forget what the human race is capable of at its basest level. Wrong is wrong and shame on those who would profit from the sale of an item like this. .

 

[Archer]

Pun

Jaeger-LeCoultre responded as under regarding the said Reverso;

"Jaeger-LeCoultre does not recognise the authenticity of this watch.

Any inference that this is an authentic Jaeger-LeCoultre watch would be a falsehood and the company would take action accordingly.

The company is committed to the protection of its intellectual property and is prepared to take all necessary legal action to prevent the sale of frauds and counterfeits."
(Copied from watchprosite.com)

Well, the wording here is interesting. The auction site is not claiming this is a "JLC watch" really, and they go into some detail to point out that this was assembled from parts that Huber likely bought from both JLC and a contract case maker. It appears that JLC was contacted about the watch before the auction was announced, as part the their research.

From the auction site:

"Jaeger-LeCoultre advises it has no production records regarding this watch. No wartime documents can be obtained from Andreas Huber – their factory was bombed and subsequently burned down during World War II."

So JLC is well aware of this watch, and so far as we know has taken no steps to stop the sale, as it's not claimed to be a Reverso really.

 

[NGO1]

Pun

At Watchprosite.com JLC Moderator emailed to JLC about this auction and the watch. The brand termed the watch as fake and not a genuine JLC watch at all. They further implied to take legal action against the auction site as well.
I believe this topic should be closed for further futile discussion.

good for JLC to respond and react. Fake or not, if this picks up more traction, especially on social medias, it is a PR nightmare for them, regardless.

 

[Pun]

Archer

Well, the wording here is interesting. The auction site is not claiming this is a "JLC watch" really, and they go into some detail to point out that this was assembled from parts that Huber likely bought from both JLC and a contract case maker. It appears that JLC was contacted about the watch before the auction was announced, as part the their research.

From the auction site:

"Jaeger-LeCoultre advises it has no production records regarding this watch. No wartime documents can be obtained from Andreas Huber – their factory was bombed and subsequently burned down during World War II."

So JLC is well aware of this watch, and so far as we know has taken no steps to stop the sale, as it's not claimed to be a Reverso really.

So it's practically a franken watch...

 

[Omegafanman]

Dan S

I want to point out that you posted this as a response to @Shabbaz who did not mention laws or bans at all (although I think it is illegal in some places), so you are putting words in his mouth and making a Straw Man argument. Personally, I disagree with the implied premise that because there is a lot of money to be made, ethics and morals should be ignored, and sellers should be given a pass. I absolutely think that it's fair game to ask people to forgo profiting from offensive items, and to tell them our opinion of it.

Sorry that is a fair point / I removed the quote reply to @Shabbaz - it was not my intention.
I also think it is fair game to ask people to forgo profiting - but if it was worth a life changing sum I dont think I would rush to judge someone for selling it. Not everyone can afford / would be able walk away from millions to do the moral right thing - but big respect to them if they do. Equally if it pays their family med bills and puts the kids in college....

Edited: Jul 15, 2022

 

[Dan S]

Archer

Well, the wording here is interesting. The auction site is not claiming this is a "JLC watch" really, and they go into some detail to point out that this was assembled from parts that Huber likely bought from both JLC and a contract case maker. It appears that JLC was contacted about the watch before the auction was announced, as part the their research.

From the auction site:

"Jaeger-LeCoultre advises it has no production records regarding this watch. No wartime documents can be obtained from Andreas Huber – their factory was bombed and subsequently burned down during World War II."

So JLC is well aware of this watch, and so far as we know has taken no steps to stop the sale, as it's not claimed to be a Reverso really.

The language is interesting. I wonder if the IP they are referring to is a patent on the Reverso case. As you noted, the listing doesn't claim it is a JLC.

 

[Pun]

Another issue will arise, would Hitler ever wear an assembled franken watch? I doubt.

 

[Dan S]

Pun

Another issue will arise, would Hitler ever wear an assembled franken watch? I doubt.

My reading is that the watch is more likely a re-branded Reverso that was presented to Hitler as a gift. No idea if he wore it. Knowing how auctioneers work, if there was a photo showing him wearing it, you can bet it would be included in the listing.

 

[johnireland]

More logically the party bosses bought the watch and had it modified to be what you see today. It doesn't reflect on JLC, any more than if it was a Rolex or an Omega. I enjoy this post because I wrote a novel in which a mythical watch made for Hitler is at the center of the story. It was called the Six Nines because every part of the watch was made with 99.9999% pure gold...every gear, screw, spring, bridge, etc.

 

[Omegafanman]

johnireland

More logically the party bosses bought the watch and had it modified to be what you see today. It doesn't reflect on JLC, any more than if it was a Rolex or an Omega. I enjoy this post because I wrote a novel in which a mythical watch made for Hitler is at the center of the story. It was called the Six Nines because every part of the watch was made with 99.9999% pure gold...every gear, screw, spring, bridge, etc.

Also 6 x 9 = 42 😀