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Disputed ownership of my Grandfathers Vintage Omega 14381 9 SC CB Pie Pan Constellation

kewteddington
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Hello,
This was my Grandfathers Omega 14381 9 SC CB Pie Pan Constellation. I'm led to believe it was purchased new in 1959 or early 1960's (serial no. 17367437). It was given to my father on his 21st birthday (1964). It was then quietly 'acquired' by my brother sometime in the late 1980's. It was only some years later that my father even noticed it was missing. At first my brother feigned innocence... until he was found wearing it!

So do I have any claim over the watch (my brothers argument is ofc, possession is nine-tenths of the law), an equal claim... or a stronger claim, as I didn't pinch the watch in the first place.. has any one got any experience of this?

In the meantime, this is a much loved vintage Omega watch and here are 5x pix. This is my appraisal, and further comments and observations would be much appreciated;-

  • Dial is marked or 'spotty', however is uniform and attractive. Could this be called Patina / or would a collector view it as damage..
  • Case appears unpolished. Is this appraisal correct..
  • Hands I believe are original, and lume is good.
  • Does the Pie Pan dial and / or Crosshair dial make is rarer, and more desirable?
  • Judging by number of the markings on the case back it appears to have been well serviced over the years. Last service by Simon Freese in 2022
  • Crown has been replaced. I would change for original (if it was mine) and a quick jump down the rabbit hole suggests a Scalloped Crown No. 4120 would be the correct Crown.

Thanks OF for this great source of information <https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-curious-case-of-controversial-constellation-crowns.54568/>

14381 9 SC CB Pie Pan Constellation.webp 3Q2A6350.webp 3Q2A6360.webp 3Q2A6374.webp serial no. 17367437.webp
 
Dan S
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Watch appears to be legit, and a nice heirloom. There is minor dial damage, IMO. A seller would call it patina. Definitely not unpolished. It's a nice dial variant, more desirable than average.

Overall, I'm not sure of the purpose of the thread. Disputes over an inheritance are sad, but common. The financial value is probably not terribly significant in the big picture, e.g. if your brother paid you half the value of the watch, you would barely notice. And only one of you can own it.
Edited:
 
Peemacgee
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The movt is a bit of a mish mash.
The whole movt appears to have been cleaned very very harshly.
The rotor has been replaced with a later version.
And the regulator is also a later replacement.

I agree with @Dan S that, annoying while it might be, there is not much you can do about your brother having the watch as you would have to prove nefarious actions to have any ‘claim’ on it.

Even though this watch has sentimental family value - Better to look for your own watch and make your own family memories with it. (And let the anger go…)
 
Knebo
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Definitely a beautiful watch! The pie pan + crosshair + no-date is my favourite dial variation. Also love the case (unpolished or not, definitely good shape). Movement needs a clean and service, but will probably come out nice.
 
Porteroso
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Nice watch. You'd have to pursue legal action to get anything done. And you'd have to ask yourself whether the watch is worth the fallout. Not just between you and your brother, but it might strain your relationship with any family member that thinks legal action is a bit harsh.

In some way, you do have equal claim to your brother, though the kids of the grandfather have the only claim worth mentioning, in most countries, until yhey are gone. I'd write a kind and factual letter to your brother, give it a week, then talk to him about it. But that's me and my family dynamics.

Ultimately only you can decide what to do. As mentioned, acquiring something similar, and knowing you have a kindred spirit of a watch to your grandfather's, might be the way to go.
 
asrnj77
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The law varies from place to place but it doesn’t have significant value like a luxury car or home would. In that case the court may order a sale and the money to be split amongst the heirs. In this case it’s like one sibling wanting ownership of their father’s favorite pipe or piece of furniture. It can’t be split by the court and you’d spend money and time with no resolution. The court would like order some sort of arbitration where he uses it half the year and you use it the other half. Best option is probably to offer your brother $500 and see what happens.
 
kewteddington
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Apologies.. as this was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. I was really looking to show my Grandfathers watch, and seeking comments on the watch..

I get on extremely well with my brother, and I would certainly never dream of instigating legal action. As suggested, Ofc it would be pointless... and he's owned it, looked after it for many years now. Thanks for comments on the watch so far..
 
SOG53
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The lead was “Disputed ownership”
Nice watch but not terribly valuable.
Maybe you can share it on occasion
 
Porteroso
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kewteddington kewteddington
Apologies.. as this was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. I was really looking to show my Grandfathers watch, and seeking comments on the watch..

I get on extremely well with my brother, and I would certainly never dream of instigating legal action. As suggested, Ofc it would be pointless... and he's owned it, looked after it for many years now. Thanks for comments on the watch so far..
I see. Well, I do like it. A lot of those old Constellations are just stunning, patina and all.
 
DON
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Where is your father? If alive. He could ask for his son to return it.

That could create some animosity. He’s had it since 1980. Leave it alone. He hasn’t sold it, so he’s taking care of it and you have your grandfathers watch
 
pdxleaf
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Have you talked to your brother about it?
It appears that while you aren't angry with him, it bothers you. If it bothers you, it could make you less open with him.

I'm no one to give advice. Like many people, we have our own family dynamics. A brother is a great gift, someone worth keeping close. Maybe try to understand why he took it. Was it to be closer to your dad?

Maybe you can figure out a way to let him know you're glad he treasures it but it bothered you that he felt he had to hide it. Or ask him if it's okay for you to have something else from your dad as a heirloom. Dad's probably got something (an air-cooled Porsche, perhaps.)

Unless it really doesn't bother you, which is great.
 
kewteddington
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DON DON
Where is your father? If alive. He could ask for his son to return it.

That could create some animosity. He’s had it since 1980. Leave it alone. He hasn’t sold it, so he’s taking care of it and you have your grandfathers watch
Thanks Don, I 100% agree.

I sent the watch to Simon Freese on my brothers behalf for a service in 2022, and he's taking great care of it.. and in the meantime I get to enjoy my Grandfathers watch.
 
Peemacgee
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The more I read this thread, the sillier your original post seems to be.

I'm not sure if you thought your title thread and initial comments were funny but you can see the confusion they have caused to members showing you good will and actually trying to give you measured counsel on your fictitious dilemma.

You could have simply posted your grandfather's watch and asked about it without the unnecessary intrigue.

Pretty poor show in my eyes -and no way to endear yourself as a new member to a forum.
 
kewteddington
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
Have you talked to your brother about it?
It appears that while you aren't angry with him, it bothers you. If it bothers you, it could make you less open with him.

I'm no one to give advice. Like many people, we have our own family dynamics. A brother is a great gift, someone worth keeping close. Maybe try to understand why he took it. Was it to be closer to your dad?

Maybe you can figure out a way to let him know you're glad he treasures it but it bothered you that he felt he had to hide it. Or ask him if it's okay for you to have something else from your dad as a heirloom. Dad's probably got something (an air-cooled Porsche, perhaps.)

Unless it really doesn't bother you, which is great.
On the contrary, this is excellent advice.. yes, we've talked / joked about this, and ofc the family dynamic comes 1st.

good point.. as dad still drives a 'bulletproof' 20 year old Toyota RAV4
 
Fallout Boy
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caucasian_Chalk_Circle

The prosecution comes forth and liberally bribes Azdak in hopes of swinging the verdict. It is revealed that Natella only wants the child because all the estate and finances of the Governor are tied to her heir and cannot be accessed without him. Grusha's defense does not go over well, as it develops into her and Simon insulting Azdak for taking bribes. Azdak fines them for this but, after consideration, claims he can't find the true mother. He decides that he will have to devise a test. A circle of chalk is drawn, and Michael is placed in the center. The true mother, Azdak states, will be able to pull the child from the center. If they both pull, they will tear the child in half and get half each. The test begins but (akin to the Judgment of Solomon) Grusha refuses to pull as she cannot bear to hurt Michael. Azdak gives her one more chance, but again she cannot pull Michael. During this dilemma, a poignant song is sung by the Singer as a reflection of Grusha's thoughts toward Michael. The others on stage cannot hear this, but they feel the overwhelming emotion through Grusha. Azdak declares that Grusha is the true mother, as she loves Michael too much to be able to hurt him.

Michael-the watch on the bracelet
 
Lorenzzzz
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kewteddington kewteddington
Apologies.. as this was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. I was really looking to show my Grandfathers watch, and seeking comments on the watch..

I get on extremely well with my brother, and I would certainly never dream of instigating legal action. As suggested, Ofc it would be pointless... and he's owned it, looked after it for many years now. Thanks for comments on the watch so far..
Would it be possible to divide the ownership of the watch in rotation for fixed periods of time?

It may add value to it family wise, and this way of doing may be inherited as well by future generations
 
Dan S
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Lorenzzzz Lorenzzzz
Would it be possible to divide the ownership of the watch in rotation for fixed periods of time?

It may add value to it family wise, and this way of doing may be inherited as well by future generations
No, no ... the obvious solution is to cut the watch in half.
 
Speed2Sea
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Dan S Dan S
No, no ... the obvious solution is to cut the watch in half
I agree ...cut the watch in half. A similar situation came up on an episode of Seinfeld involving a bicycle.
 
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