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Dial variants of omega constellation arrow head 14381

  1. Nwoolly Jan 31, 2019

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    Hi all,

    In my journey to chase a fine arrowhead constellation, I notice that the this dial variant SC 61 (Sunburst) for a 14381 551 arrowhead is the most attractive :
    20190127_124818.jpg

    I also chanced on another dial variant Sc-3 for a similar model 14381 551:

    20190129_183652.jpg

    My question is:
    1) how many dial variants are there for this model?
    2) are there any where I can check information on dial variants?
    3) are the sunburst ones (sc-61) more rare than the rest for such model.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Edward53 Jan 31, 2019

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    Have you looked on Mondodec's Constellation Collectors Blog? If the information isn't there, I doubt you will find it anywhere except maybe on this forum in bits and pieces.
     
  3. TexOmega Jan 31, 2019

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    -61 date of production roughly
    -3 third run

    SC= center sweep



    The verbiage as you see are the only two variants but of course you’ll see different markers with both gold and silver choices.

    Plus both pie and dome

    So you’ll see a mixture and a odd ball or two if someone wanted a special order.:)

    My special order 14381


    2377EEDD-0766-4D52-AA0B-996F6D6E800D.jpeg
     
    Edited Jan 31, 2019
    Gavin, GregH, hoipolloi and 2 others like this.
  4. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Jan 31, 2019

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    And don’t forget the ‘rail track’ dial
     
  5. cristos71 Feb 1, 2019

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    OP is looking for arrowhead dial variants, I don't remember seeing a rail track with arrowhead markers?
     
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  6. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Feb 1, 2019

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    Hi @cristos71
    you are quite right about rail tracks and arrowheads ( that would be some combination...)
    I know the OP was originally discussing arrowheads but he then posed the open question of "how many dial variants are there for this model"
    - of which of course there are quite a few.
     
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  7. Nwoolly Feb 1, 2019

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    I believe I saw waffle ones before for arrowhead of such model. Just want to know what I am missing out. And seems like there's no such information compiled..
     
  8. cristos71 Feb 1, 2019

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    Hmm, I don't remember seeing a waffle 14381, but I do have this half waffle railtrack 14393 which is basically the date version of the 14381.

    20170608_203016.jpg
     
  9. orario Aug 6, 2019

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    A "Half-waffle-railtrack" - WOW ! :thumbsup:
     
  10. merchandiser Aug 6, 2019

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    And I thought I was the only one with a half waffle rail track:)

    IMG_2902.JPG
     
    Zapatta, sliceoftime_, Dero13 and 7 others like this.
  11. orario Aug 7, 2019

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    I don't consider myself a collector. I'm buying Constellations when I see one beautiful example. Its more my gut that buys them. I enjoy looking for them etc, like many of you guys do I suppose. Sometimes I think: Now you've seen all variations existing" and that makes me a bit sad. But then suddenly new styles pop up which I never knew they existed. Half-waffle-dials .... thank you guys for posting these. The above one of you, merchandiser, is a absolute stunning one and I am sure its look fantastic depending on light falling in from other ankles. Do you have some more pics of that one ?
     
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  12. cristos71 Aug 7, 2019

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    Half waffles exist in quite a few other references too. Here's a Connie 2652 and a Seamaster 2846 for example

    20170501_235057.jpg
    20171123_101339.jpg
     
  13. orario Aug 7, 2019

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    As I am admiring your watches I feel obligated to contribute to the common entertainment by posting a full arabic rosegold one I acquired a few days ago on ebay germany: 14k red gold capped case 168.005 CB from around1962. Engine 561, Nr. 19077600. Case, machine and Dialplate are in NOS conditions. Same for hands, dateframe, Crown. All nearly perfect. It has a non original glass and not the yellow gasket anymore, so it was serviced at least one time in its life I suppose. But no marks in the backplate. Anyway, I am posting this in the dial thread because of the numerals. Having a close look to them I can see that they are facetted and not polished. They are partially (i think less than 15% of the total surface) covered with a mixture of black paint, copper corrosion (green salts). Looking with a magnifying glass unveil that little traces of powders are spread all over the dial. Invisible nomally. So I wondered that such a fantastic preserved watch has so much corrosion to only one detail.
    Looking at other examples of full arabic connies on the net shows that they are all in similar conditions and even one single example with good preserved black paint shows heavy damage on them. My hypotesis is: Omega or their dialmaker subcontractor didn't use massiv gold numerals for those dials but galvanic gilded ones. The paint was that of the usual black dials which is not stable to time and heat and maybe has a low pH so performs a acid attack to the layer under them. Galvanic gilding is extremely delicate to light exposure combined with acid attack. The latter can even come from unsufficient watering the objects after coming off from the gilding bath. So the black paint got deteriorated by light exposrue and acid produced coppersalts which popped up the gilded surface and all that falls to dust and disappears leaving the dial with "matt-gilt" indices/numerals. I would be much interested what the specialists here say to this and if you have similar experiences. now, finally, the necessary pics. I have only those from the ebay auction disponible at the moment. If desired I will try to make some details fotos. That would be a challenge... 17-10.jpg 17-11.jpg 17-12.jpg 17-13.jpg 17-14.jpg 17-15.jpg 17-16.jpg 17-17.jpg 17-18.jpg
     
  14. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Aug 7, 2019

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    Couple of clarifications on last post:

    1. The watch likely was originally delivered to the U.K. That style of numbered dial is featured in this 1966 catalog.

    http://www.old-omegas.com/catuk66.html

    [​IMG]

    2. My guess would be that your watch had some water intrusion at some point. The missing rear gasket is the clue. Either the water killed the gasket and it was never replaced, or the intrusion occurred after the gasket was removed. The presence of water vapor in a closed environment, couple with any number of pollutants (salt from sweat, nicotine from smoke, etc), will cause an acidic chemical reaction that will attack both the dial lacquer and even 18K gold over a long period of time. It may be possible for a skilled watchmaker/restorer to conserve your dial, but you should look into getting a replacement gasket and having the watch pressure tested afterwards for water resistance.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
  15. ConElPueblo Aug 7, 2019

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    There are some issues with this, but an interesting case!

    You're right that the markers aren't solid gold; to the best of my knowledge this is the case with all watches with exception of those with solid gold dials.

    My main worry with this one is the red gold case - I would expect matching gold dial furniture, not yellow gold as here. Had it been a steel case it wouldn't be as clear cut, but my educated guess is that the dial and possibly also the movement came from a different watch.
     
    Eve likes this.
  16. orario Aug 7, 2019

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    Hello, thank for your reply and the infos. In fact i did not open the case so far but from the auction pictures the movement looked fine for me, do you agree ? To look after the Gasket is on my agenda however. My observation on other similar watches on the net unveiled that the flaking black numerals are very common in all gilt dials and much less in ss ones. As a chemist I know that the coppersalts containing dust on the dial, in presence of moisture would have damaged the dial itself and left colored watermarks. And I think it could be seen also on the movement ? But that seems to be in excellent condition just as the rest of the watch. It really seems more a dry deterioration by simple oxidation under light by normal moisture. I just thought for a moment to put it to my laboratory and get certainties about the decomposition proces and nature of the numerals, but then I thought why should we know everything ? Anyway, I hope that sucking off the microdust from the dial and cleaning the surface of the numerals a bit, applicating new black paint to the dials shouldn't be a big deal. I will ask watchguy UK if they can do that. It's a nice watch however and I'm happy with it. And it gives me the chance to have nice discussions with you guys here on the forum which is always a pleasure.
     
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  17. orario Aug 7, 2019

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    Thank you very much for your opinion, that was also my concern. When the watch arrived, fortunately I found that in its flesh the difference of the colours is not visible for some reasons. It makes a homogenous impression. Maybe the seller used some antireflection filtering with colour correction that created the different colors. I don't know. Maybe I can manage better fotos of this watch. I will try it. I am thinking also of asking omega for an extract... what do you think ?
     
  18. ConElPueblo Aug 7, 2019

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    I'd say that from my experience, there is little chance that these are anything else than two different colours; if anything I'd expect the hands to be a slightly darker hue than the markers and case, but this isn't the case there. If you purchase an extract it will most likely come up with a gold/gold capped case sold in England as @gatorcpa wrote. If it mentions gold colour, it will be yellow gold. I could well imagine that the case would noted as being in solid gold, as a leftover dial/movement from a scrapped case makes sense here.

    Extracts are still rather uncommon for Constellations as the cost is rather high in comparison to the value of the watch, and adds fairly little to the sales value. That doesn't make them less interesting though :)
     
  19. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Aug 7, 2019

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    Hi @orario

    I’m a little confused about where the black paint is meant to be.
    There aren’t many of these come up for close scrutiny but I believe that there are two types - ones with flat numbers and ones with faceted numbers.
    I understood that the ones with faceted numbers were originally left with polished faces.

    The watch has certainly had some work done to it in the past as it has had the rotor replaced with a late 60s / early 70s version, to cure rotor rub.

    Constellations have a long history of degradation to bits of dial and hands whilst the rest remains unscathed (most notably seconds hands)
    In this case there has definitely been some moisture intrusion no matter how limited.
    If it had remained sealed, the outer edge of the movement would be the same warm colour as the bridge instead of the dull grey-green that reveals the rotor rub track.

    I too would like to see additional pics -hoping that the hands and dial furniture do indeed match that lovely pink case but I'm rather afraid they are yellow rather than pink.
     
  20. orario Aug 7, 2019

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    ..now I am forced to study how to procure high detail pics of movement and dial ::facepalm2::. Thank you all for your experienced opinions. That was highly instructive. I will come back with this topic once I have more detailed informations.