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  1. screwzlewz Jun 24, 2013

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    Can someone post the differences between a 67 145.012 and a 68 145.022. I think I found a 67 but unsure as I cannot get much info on it. Insert appears correct, hands have been changed, but I'm looking Thor a tell tale sign between the dials if there is one.

    thanks, pete
     
  2. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jun 24, 2013

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    The whole point about a transitional 145.022 861 is that the dial is the same as the 145.012 so there is no external "tell"

    you need to read the inside of the caseback and confirm the movement, and serial.

    idealy post photos and we will tear it apart, or tell you how wonderful your next watch is!
     
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  3. sulaco Jun 25, 2013

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    I had the same problem when i bought my 145.012 and i hoped one clue would be the pointed large second hand, because the 145.022 transitional should have a flat ended large second hand according to the german Add from 71 where interestingly a Transitional is shown.
     
  4. anssi301 Jun 26, 2013

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    Just my guess: mayby you can listen the watch? If it is 321 it "tickles" slower than 861. That is what I have noticed, when I compared my mark2 and my 105.012. 321 bph is 18000 (2.5 Hz) and 861 bph is 21600 (3 Hz), so in theory you can hear the diference. (this is just my idea, not a fackt!)
     
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  5. TLIGuy Jun 26, 2013

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    They should have the flat large second hand? I don't think there is a definitive answer. Here is my unmolested 68' Transitional.
     
    RSCN3110_zpse21f83d5.jpg
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  6. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    image.jpg Here is a picture from an add dated 1971 from Germany.
     
  7. TLIGuy Jun 26, 2013

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    Not disputing the add showing the flat second hand just the fact that the transitionals seem to be a mixed bag of not fully defined answers. It was just that you post says that they should have the flat hand and there are many that do not.
     
  8. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    And here is the complete Add image.jpg
     
  9. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    That is for sure, i just thought it could be a hint, obviously it isnt
     
  10. TLIGuy Jun 26, 2013

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    I actually wonder if the watch in the add is what we think of as a transitional Speedmaster. The most basic definition from my research would be a 145.022, 861 movement, and a 321 style dial. The add image appears, to me, to have a printed logo but it may just be the angle. A printed dial would be more in line with the 71' Speedmaster. The Speedmaster I posted is a very early 68'. Maybe the use of the old second hand was used until the old stock of 321 parts was used up.

    This is why I find the transitionals fascinating and I'm sure the experts will be along shortly to get us straight.
     
  11. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    So that are my bad photographing skills

    It has an applied logo on the dial, thats why i find this add so interesting. Keep in mind, its from 71 and they still advertise the transitional Speedy!
     
  12. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    So question would be, can you call something transitional if it was advertised and sold for 3 years?
     
  13. TLIGuy Jun 26, 2013

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    We are going to have to send up the Omega Bat signal and hope the experts chime in soon.

    I have seen other Omega Speedmaster ads that used stock photos of watches that had been discontinued earlier than the ad print. It could be a plausible answer her, but again, this is why the transitional period is so very interesting to me.

    I'm out now but when I get home I'll post a picture of my two 68's side by side. Both from 68' but two totally different watches appearance wise.
     
  14. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Jun 26, 2013

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    Here is a cut and paste of a post I made in a different thread in 2/2013.

    The first 861 speedmasters came in 2 general forms - same caseback, same dot over 90 bezel and same hands but different dial - the earlier ones came with the applied omega symbol and the later ones like the OP's watch came with the painted symbol. This was then followed by the model BASE1000 was referring to which featured the First Watch on the Moon caseback, and later bezel. So the first 2 years or so of the 861 had these 3 "transition" models so to speak before the more typical 861 speedmaster emerged. I have observed the OP's watch to be the most common followed by the watch with the "First Watch..." caseback and the least common of the 3 is the 861 with the applied symbol dial.
     
  15. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    I think you posted the pictures before, right? When we talk about using up the old applied Logo Dials we run into one problem, the dial feet for a 321 movement are smaller in diameter as the one for 861, but i heard they compensated this by using sleeved
     
  16. sulaco Jun 26, 2013

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    A base 1000 bezel? with an 861 movement, really! and what about the caseback with the Omega letter in the middle? Between 68 and 70 something Omega must have had a lot of different versions of the same watch! How should this comply to the customer who wants to buy what he saw in an Ad? Sounds somehow strange to me when we talk about a factory that produces precious timepieces
     
  17. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Jun 26, 2013

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    Base1000 is a member in the forum who is a speedmaster expert!
    The 3 "transitional" models I refer to were probably produced over a short period of time - maybe 1-2 years and then advertised and sold to many different markets over a longer period.
     
  18. TLIGuy Jun 26, 2013

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    Interesting. I always concluded that the Speedmasters with the 861, stepped dial, and the applied logo were considered transitional. Adding the 3rd with the "First Watch" case back would be new to me but acceptable.
     
  19. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jun 27, 2013

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    Other way around....321 uses the larger diameter dial feet...

    321 on the left, 1861 on the right (same as 861):

    [​IMG]

    Cheers, Al
     
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  20. omegastar Jun 27, 2013

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    Can you or can you not fit a 321 dial in a 861 movement ?
    What is OP watch ?