I am having a problem with this watch that I would like to try wearing


My repairer's first words were "how are you supposed to get a crystal into that? There's no ledge for it to fit onto"

Then despite what he had just said, he took the watch in, to find a balance staff.

But a few days later, he gave up trying to look because he decided he couldn't identify the movement. Does anyone know what it is please? It is 24mm across, which makes it an ordinary 10 ligne?



I tried the Ranfft movement identification page, which I have found in the past never seems to be able to identify any movement; and true to form, it couldn't come up with anything beyond suggesting that it is a modern Zenith. (it IS possible to me that the movement is later than the dial, but the legs do fit coincidentally well!) Did Zenith produce unsigned raw ébauches looking like this, and/or how can I get a movement number for a staff?

It looks a bit like a Movado bridge layout but with all parts reversed? So that when in Movado there i's a convex, here I see a concave etc. But that doesn't exactly help much, besides the fact that Movado didn't often supply raw ebauches like Fontainemelon and Schild. Judging by the jewel on the first wheel, it looks kinda high quality?

 

Please show the dial side of the movement. The setting parts can help identify a movement. Or you might find the maker’s trade mark and caliber stamped into the pillar plate. How hard is the repair guide trying, I must ask? I suspect you are referring to the jewel on the top pivot of the center wheel (otherwise known as the second wheel).

 

Yes , that's the jewel. I haven't removed the dial to look under it because I have really bad luck with getting dials back on again. But I will say this, the repairer did say he had removed the dial trying to idpentify the movement and he insists that there are no markings under it or anywhere else. He seemed adequately annoyed to not be paid for doing so that I believe him

 

My guess is an Auld Schild aka AS movement.

 

Might be but I cant find ANY schilds with anything resembllng that bridge design

 

The closest I could find is the Pronto 13400 but it is not even close to an exact match.

 

sayswhosays? In so far as relevant, it looks like an almost exact match? Well Done and thanks! It only has differences on attachments like the regulator/seconds hand wheel extension. Which might have differed as to year anyway. Surely the balance must be the same. Ranfft's somewhat eccentric lookup system, curiously doesnt dare try identifying the staff.

 

Plate shape isn't the same, screw placements are different, etc. I looked through all 10.5 size movements that I could find, just to see if there were any matches. No idea who Pronto watch was either - that's the only movement in Ranfft for the company. It's different enough, and there is enough cross-pollination in the industry that I would be surprised if this ends up being useful information. The balance design is quite different too - the Pronto appears to have a KIF shock protection system, while your movement I don't think has one at all, which would indicate that your movement is older I think.

 

You are not looking for identification markings on the dial side. If that’s all he did to identify this movement you might want to find another watchmaker.

Movement identification is often done by looking at the configuration of the setting parts, and comparing them to a reference guide (such as found in the Bestfit catalogue) and using that along with the size and shape of the movement, you can determine the maker and caliber.

BTW the Pronto shown above appears very different to your movement, so it’s unlikely to be the one IMO...

Cheers, Al

 

Yes, i dont doubt that what you say is the case, - in fact that was exactly what I was trying to do with the Ranfft movement identification page, http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-2uswk.cgi?1&ranfft which I ran a dozen times with only the Zenith coming up in the results

 

I would t use that Ranfft page personally. Much better to use the Bestfit system, so if you can post the diameter of the movement and photos of the dial side, that would allow us to help you...

 

I have a similar movement that I can't identify:

 

Now that one looks more than just similar to me.

 

Well I took the dial off and the whole question became academic when I saw all the glue holding it to the movement. Some expert had sawn the legs off and tried the glue instead.

Anyone know a repair shop with one of those dial leg fixing machines please?

 

The movement shown by Amadeus is a Vulcain 110. The pillar plate is stamped 110, so if the movement belonging to the DManzaluni is the same (sure looks the same), then it too is a Vulcain 110. How DManzaluni’s repair guy wasn’t able to figure that out, I have no clue! I think DM needs to look for a competent watch repair guy!

 

or find less (to utilise the correct technical term) fehrshtunkene watches that are so badly bodged together that no self-respecting professional would want to touch them?

 

Well, if your guy was unable (or unwilling) to expend a real effort to at least try to identify your watch, I think your watch deserves getting the opinion of someone else. If it is so bad that it needs new parts, at least now he knows the caliber, and has the tools to make an effort.

 

I work on watches that are in bad shape all the time. Most professionals will, but you will have to pay a price that reflects the challenges of the condition of the watch. A glued on dial doesn’t even begin to be a challenge really...it’s more common than you might think...

Many watchmakers (including me) have dial foot soldering machines...they are pretty common too.

 

Since this watch is clearly a marriage, surely the best bet is to find a nice condition 10.5 ligne movement-with-hands and simply weld legs onto this dial in the correct positions? (Not dots) Then you have a beautiful wearer, which will also sell one day to someone who thinks it equally beautiful.

How much should it cost to find a common movement, weld legs on and re-assemble? Compared to buying and replacing a balance staff, welding legs on, finding any hands that have been lost when the gluing process went wrong over time, and re-assembling?

 

I think, before you try any heroic measures to return the watch to service, you should try to solve the problem of that odd crystal. Looking at the total package, it might be better for you to seek a more worthy project. Replace crystal, repair or replace movement, apply new feet to the dial, a dial which has seen better days? If this is a very sentimental watch, if cost is no object, or if you can do the job yourself, go for it. Otherwise, I would suggest shelving the project.