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Considerations for a modern Submariner purchase (14060/14060M)

  1. KAP Jan 22, 2019

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    I’m an Omega guy, but have an interest in a future purchase of a Rolex Submariner too. As I’ve looked into information related to the Submariner, I’m narrowing my focus to the 14060 and 14060M given the pre-1990 versions have risen to values higher than I want to spend. And the current 114060 version is too chunky for my taste.

    While searching for information, I came across a few related articles in Watchprozine that were interesting (see links below). These discussed potential desirable modern Rolex sport watches in six short parts titled “Identifying future classic Rolex from 1999-2018 era.”


    I took note of the following and have a question for you at the end.

    The 14060 “Swiss” only

    This appears in 1998-1999 during a transition from Tritium dials to Luminova dials to Super Luminova dials. The move to Luminova in 1998/99 (late U-series or A-series serial number) saw the dial reference for Tritium replaced by the word “Swiss” at 6 O’clock. “Swiss Made” followed with the transition to Super Luminova.

    Here’s the link to the Watchprozine post:

    https://www.watchprozine.com/rolex/...-only-effect-with-four-examples/10060111/732/


    14060M with a dial version where F used in 1000 ft has a long tail

    This was found during the transition year from the 2 to 4-liner (2007-2008) and only during the 1st year of 4-liner production. The long F sets it apart from the other 14060Ms.

    https://www.watchprozine.com/rolex/...-submariner-14060m-the-lgf-dial/10176761/732/



    There does not appear to be noticeable price differences on the Submariners between the years of 1990 to 2012 when the 14060 and 14060M were made. Would you focus a purchase toward these subtle dial variations or the earlier Tritium dials of 1990 to 1998 or some other nuance? Are there more important factors that should be considered?


    Thanks for any opinions and insights you wish to share.
     
  2. Dan S Jan 22, 2019

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    I'd go for tritium, best condition you can afford, B&P if possible. Tritium dials will continue to age and look significantly different than new models.
     
  3. RMA Jan 22, 2019

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    I’m more partial to the 4 liner, I own a Z series 2007 with the standard F (kind of like the longer F personally) but wasn’t aware of it when I had purchased it. I like the fact the 4 liner has a more modern look w the engraved Rehaut & was only in production for 5 years.
     
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  4. eskiserkan Jan 22, 2019

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    I got a chance of getting NOS 2-line and 4-line with rehaut. Bought the 2-liner. However, now i am looking for the 4-liner also
     
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  5. flqt-9000 Jan 22, 2019

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    I got a 14060 with superluminova. It is my real everyday watch.
    I think if you want to use it go for a superluminova!
     
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  6. khanmu Jan 22, 2019

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    Agree with @Dan S - an early 5513 is still a grail as and when funds allow, otherwise my preference would be for a four line 14060 Tritium dial ideally with B&P...it should age nicely. However it practicality is a criteria and you really need to see in the dark, then it’s a super luminous and definitely with B&P...
     
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  7. boogedyboo Jan 22, 2019

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    The subtle dial variations you mentioned have no real impact on how the watch looks e.g. SWISS dial or long F.

    The aspect which will really impact the aesthetics and the value will be the tritium dial. I would go for the tritium dial.
     
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  8. kaisiang098 Jan 22, 2019

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    I own a birthyear tritium 14060 with B&P and i wouldn't have it any other way. :thumbsup:
     
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  9. KAP Jan 23, 2019

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    Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond over the past day.

    Here’s my twist summarizing the posts up to now and including my taking liberties with a few additional thoughts. What do you and others think of the accuracy of my understanding/interpretation in this summary? Please keep in mind that there is currently not a significant difference in price for the variations throughout this period. Are there other thoughts and considerations I should factor in?

    *Lean to the 14060M (2000-2012) with Super Luminova dial if my watch is intended as daily use plus where time is important to see in the dark. The focus so far seems on an individual preference for a 2 or 4-liner on the dial and interest on an engraved rehaut. The change to a new 3150 movement in 1998 and then COSC in 2007 is not a significant factor in the future valuation of the “M” (modified) version compared to the earlier period of 1990-1997.

    * The long F (2007-08) is interesting, but will not be a viable difference that adds value in future years over other 14060s.

    *Go for the 14060 with Tritium especially if it will not be a daily wear and I do not want to pay the price of the 5513. This period of 1990 to 1997 is the last of the Tritium dials. The recommendation is based on the aesthetics of Tritium lume and the future value considerations even though these dials span the most years of this Submariner version.

    *The Tritium 14060 is as close to the previous 5513 version aesthetics as you can get.

    *The short Luminova period (“Swiss” only from 1998-99) is a compromise and not desirable compared to the Tritium period and the Super Luminovia period.

    *The subtle dial variations with limited production discussed in the OP are not significant. My impression has been Rolex collectors steer toward big, but also slight variations with limited production, however it sounds like for multiple reasons in posts above that other factors are more important.

    Again , thanks for your insights!
     
    Edited Jan 27, 2019
  10. eskiserkan Jan 23, 2019

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  11. Dan S Jan 23, 2019

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    A tritium 14060 would be perfectly fine as a daily wearer. In fact, many of them could still be serviceable dive watches. Just get it serviced and pressure checked, and you will be absolutely fine. Very reliable movements, robust watch.
     
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  12. Togri v. 2.0 Wow! Custom title... cool Jan 24, 2019

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    I would just buy the bugger regardless of small dial variations. In 40 years when these watches are getting vintage we will probably have seen a new world war over resources, massive refugee waves, increased climate change and serious degradation of ecosystems worldwide. I wouldn’t be surprised if people didn’t have time to worry about dial details on Rolex watches anymore. To be able to do that is an incredible luxury. Buy and enjoy now. :)
     
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  13. KAP Jan 27, 2019

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    That is a good informative read. Thanks eskiserkan for searching that out.

    Also, thanks DanS for clarifying and correcting my previous summary. That makes good sense.

    And a reasonable and realistic approach Togri v. 2.0. I like it.

    All these replies have been very helpful in deciding what would be the best option for me. My preference is now to the Tritium lume period of the 14060 with box and papers. Now I just need to be patient until I find one in nice condition.
     
  14. hungdangnguyen23 Jan 27, 2019

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    Nothing beats tritium that's going through a custardy patina. Although most 14060 and 16610 patina I've seen is more on the subtle eggshell color. Of course the patina will continue to evolve but not as a daily wear from what I've heard, since exposure to sunlight will whiten the tritium lume plots and in theory you will lose the patina if the watch isn't stored in darkness like Dracula or something.

    So if the watch will be a daily wearer, why not go for a nice 16610 with solid endlinks and lume that will actually work in the dark? Just my opinion....
     
  15. KAP Jan 28, 2019

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    Argh. You all are killing me with a decision of Tritium vs Super Luminovia for the 14060/14060M. I just wanted a simple and absolute black and white conclusion.... :)

    At least the decision is eliminated related to steering toward the subtle dial differences with "Swiss" only or the "Long F" that I described in the first post. Don't anyone dare counter that statement!!

    At the high latitudes I live at, the sun is not as intense on a watch dial as compared to much further south. Maybe tritium will turn a deep tan/orange in a relatively short time up here without being tucked into a dark space. ;)

    (Thanks for jumping in with your post hungdangnguyen23)
     
    Edited Jan 28, 2019
  16. sxl2004 Jan 28, 2019

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    I got my 25 year old 14060 esterproofed at a service center and is now one of my daily and vacation watches.
    Go Tritium, even so the 14060 lume does not age like the 5513.
     
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  17. Tubber Jan 28, 2019

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    16 posts and not one photo? How can anybody consider anything with no photos?
    Sub.jpg
    4-line, Super-Luminova 14060M.
     
  18. Togri v. 2.0 Wow! Custom title... cool Jan 28, 2019

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    I have a tritium GMT-Master II from 1993, which is currently a nice eggshell white. However if someone had a super-luminova one in equal condition and wanted to trade, I probably would do it. I like tritium on older watches, like a birthyear one where anything other than tritium would indicate a replacement dial, but if I am just looking for a “random” watch I personally don’t like tritium over luminova.

    My first Rolex was a 14060M from 2003. Couldn’t be happier.
     
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  19. Shabbaz Jan 28, 2019

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    I DID NOT COMPROMISE! :D

    Anyway, my problem was that a lot of tritium subs in the 5-6k range had problems (overpolished cases, etc) so indeed the swiss only was a bit of a compromise. Nevertheless, I still like the two liner, no date and it's a robust watch. I use it often for holidays. Good luck finding your watch! Picture of course...
     
    Screenshot_20190128-140421_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20190128-140451_Gallery.jpg
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  20. Togri v. 2.0 Wow! Custom title... cool Jan 28, 2019

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    Hell, I’ll also throw in some random photos :)

    7E0C8798-A9D9-4664-993A-CCBFE31BFED6.jpeg 1E196969-9C7F-4645-B062-E2590C26EF41.jpeg 9E6A8128-4AE3-43C7-A22D-92FFCEF397CE.jpeg