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sxl2004
·30 m water resistance?
😉
😉
Compur 30
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Lurk41
·or only with dry water 😁
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bgrisso
·PR is apparently 36 hours on those calibers, so for sure it is not related.
@vujen You may be right! I performed a quick search: all the compax/compur 30 I can found on the Internet have 38x calibers 😀
@bgrisso flat hairspring on 38x vs Breguet hairspring on 28x. I guess it affected a bit the height. Do not ask me why, as I have no idea 😁
are you certain that the reason for the height difference is due to the change in hairspring? Or do we just know they are different heights and different hairsprings?
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bgrisso
·Another side question, not sure if related to this issue or not, does anyone understand what happened with the shift from Compur with 45 minute subdial, to Compax and all other product lines going forward (except Uni Compax which I think was basically just a rebranded Compur) with a 30 minute subdial?
They are all running off the same base calibers, so was it just a parts shift from a 285 Compur 45 minute to a 285 Compax 30 minute?
They are all running off the same base calibers, so was it just a parts shift from a 285 Compur 45 minute to a 285 Compax 30 minute?
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerObviously a reckognised name and long enough in the business to be there when the Compur 30's were new. Picture has not enough detail to say anything IMHO.
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Lurk41
·are you certain that the reason for the height difference is due to the change in hairspring? Or do we just know they are different heights and different hairsprings?
(I am not a watchmaker, so everything below is based on my very limited knowledge)
Supposedly the hairspring affects the height. You will try to update only the minimal amount of pieces and try to not alter how the balance wheel interacts with the fork, the fork with the escape wheel, etc... So, you modify maybe the balance wheel, the staff, the bridge. And keep the rest as it is. In the end, the balance bridge will stand higher. But the thickness of the caliber is the biggest at the chronograph bridge... The overall thickness should not change.
Does anyone have a 285 and a 385 to disassemble and measure each part? 😁
Another side question, not sure if related to this issue or not, does anyone understand what happened with the shift from Compur with 45 minute subdial, to Compax and all other product lines going forward (except Uni Compax which I think was basically just a rebranded Compur) with a 30 minute subdial?
They are all running off the same base calibers, so was it just a parts shift from a 285 Compur 45 minute to a 285 Compax 30 minute?
The Compur was the 1st wristwatch chronograph that did not require a reset after a stop, thanks to the 2 pushers. Maybe they felt 30min was not enough anymore given you could now pause and resume as much as you want? and 60min was too much (either unreadable or too difficult to produce)?
As the Compax has a 12-hour subdial, a 45min subdial would not be convenient. After 50min, it would display "5min" while the hour subdial will be close to 1h. And after 1h you would have to reset the minute counter to display 1h 0min. A 30min subdial was the way to go.
Technically speaking, the modified parts are: the minute recording wheel and its jumper (45 teeth vs. 30), the sliding gear (to fit with the different shape of the minute wheel's teeth), the chronograph runner (only the dart tooth - to fit with the different shape of the sliding gear's teeth ^^). The height does not change because of that. But as there are now parts on the dial side of the plate, a compax is thicker than a compur (+0.8mm based on UG document). And a tri-compax is even thicker (+1.6mm).
BTW the full image in which the diameter and height are listed is misleading regarding uni-compax / compax
X = compaX, not uni-compax
AX = Aero-compaX, not compax
DX = Dato-compaX
TX = Tri-compaX
Compur / Uni-compax use the base caliber
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bgrisso
·As written, only a guess 😉 It could be completely unrelated. And the more I think about it, the more I think it is unrelated...
(I am not a watchmaker, so everything below is based on my very limited knowledge)
Supposedly the hairspring affects the height. You will try to update only the minimal amount of pieces and try to not alter how the balance wheel interacts with the fork, the fork with the escape wheel, etc... So, you modify maybe the balance wheel, the staff, the bridge. And keep the rest as it is. In the end, the balance bridge will stand higher. But the thickness of the caliber is the biggest at the chronograph bridge... The overall thickness should not change.
Does anyone have a 285 and a 385 to disassemble and measure each part? 😁
Before the Compur and the Compax, most (if not all) chronographs had only one 30 min subdial (and subsecond). The Compax kept it, while the Compur used a 45min one.
The Compur was the 1st wristwatch chronograph that did not require a reset after a stop, thanks to the 2 pushers. Maybe they felt 30min was not enough anymore given you could now pause and resume as much as you want? and 60min was too much (either unreadable or too difficult to produce)?
As the Compax has a 12-hour subdial, a 45min subdial would not be convenient. After 50min, it would display "5min" while the hour subdial will be close to 1h. And after 1h you would have to reset the minute counter to display 1h 0min. A 30min subdial was the way to go.
Technically speaking, the modified parts are: the minute recording wheel and its jumper (45 teeth vs. 30), the sliding gear (to fit with the different shape of the minute wheel's teeth), the chronograph runner (only the dart tooth - to fit with the different shape of the sliding gear's teeth ^^). The height does not change because of that. But as there are now parts on the dial side of the plate, a compax is thicker than a compur (+0.8mm based on UG document). And a tri-compax is even thicker (+1.6mm).
BTW the full image in which the diameter and height are listed is misleading regarding uni-compax / compax
X = compaX, not uni-compax
AX = Aero-compaX, not compax
DX = Dato-compaX
TX = Tri-compaX
Compur / Uni-compax use the base caliber
thanks, lots of good information there, appreciated. I had similar thinking, perhaps if anything an overcoil hairspring would be thicker than a flat hairspring, but as you suggest, if the thickest part is the chrono bridge, then perhaps irrelevant.
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martinc
·Coming back to this interesting topic of Universal “30” signed watches… I just wanted to make a little summary of some obvious “facts” (or rather assumptions) - based on my observations:
1/ it seems that all Universal Geneve watches powered by cal. 381, 385 or 386 have dials marked “30”.
2/ the inverse is not valid - i.e. NOT all Universal Geneve watches marked “30” on the dial use 381/386 calibers. For example (at least some) Spillmann 22410 Compax 30 have 285 calibers, other references are known too.
3/ only Compur 30 and Compax 30 exist. I know of no “Uni-Compax 30”, despite the fact that they are the same watch as Compur.
4/ calibers 381, 385 and 386 (and 387 - never seen that irl, but Sala has it) are also used (almost exclusively) in watches signed Uweco and Berthoud. These are not signed “30”.
5/ some Compur and Compax references exist in both “30” and “normal” versions and have the same case and same reference number, differing only by the caliber - for example Spillmann 22409 which can be Compur, Compur 30 or Uni-Compax.
1/ it seems that all Universal Geneve watches powered by cal. 381, 385 or 386 have dials marked “30”.
2/ the inverse is not valid - i.e. NOT all Universal Geneve watches marked “30” on the dial use 381/386 calibers. For example (at least some) Spillmann 22410 Compax 30 have 285 calibers, other references are known too.
3/ only Compur 30 and Compax 30 exist. I know of no “Uni-Compax 30”, despite the fact that they are the same watch as Compur.
4/ calibers 381, 385 and 386 (and 387 - never seen that irl, but Sala has it) are also used (almost exclusively) in watches signed Uweco and Berthoud. These are not signed “30”.
5/ some Compur and Compax references exist in both “30” and “normal” versions and have the same case and same reference number, differing only by the caliber - for example Spillmann 22409 which can be Compur, Compur 30 or Uni-Compax.
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