Cheap Chinese

Jonathan40 · May 17, 2020

So read loads of posts on plenty of forums about Chinese watches. Decided that during lockdown I was going to find out for my self. Bought I watch that looks a lot like an Omega Aqua Terra, Miyota 21 jewel auto movement From a seller on the bay with over 20000 likes, I then looked at a pilot homage watch from a seller here in the UK but direct from China hand wound Seagull 6497 movement.
Besides wanting to investigate these pieces in detail I had it in my head they would be perfect pieces to take to Vegas in Feb 2021 when I go away with some old school friends for our 50th birthdays.
I plan to do an in-depth review of them both after having them on the wrist for a few weeks but first impressions.
Superb, £65 for an auto with acceptable sweep, lume and ok bracelet. I’m happy.
The manual is just lovely to look at and £80 for 48 hour power reserve hand wind which is pretty to look at is incredible.
I’m struggling to fault them both and for the price I can fit them in my collect between £20k down to £4k Main brand watches and they sit within just fine. Once you remove the bracelet.
Pics to follow and a review.

KingCrouchy · May 17, 2020

Please read
https://omegaforums.net/threads/should-i-buy-a-homage.66686/

wagudc · May 17, 2020

Jonathan40
I’m struggling to fault them both and for the price I can fit them in my collect between £20k down to £4k Main brand watches and they sit within just fine. Once you remove the bracelet.
Pics to follow and a review.

Among other things, the main fault of the watch is ethics.

gatorcpa · May 17, 2020

wagudc
Among other things, the main fault of the watch is ethics.

Is it? The Swiss willingly sold the technology to produce these movements to Chinese companies years ago.

Swiss companies have been “knocking-off” other Swiss watch models for years.

Remind you of something? 😉😁

There is nothing new under the sun.
gatorcpa

Walrus · May 17, 2020

gatorcpa
Is it? The Swiss willingly sold the technology to produce these movements to Chinese companies years ago.

Swiss companies have been “knocking-off” other Swiss watch models for years.

Remind you of something? 😉😁

There is nothing new under the sun.
gatorcpa

I read an article how in the late1800’s early 1900 the US was at the top of the watch tech with our watches designed for the railroads. The Swiss copied much of America’s tech at the time with the intent of becoming the top watch making country in the world. I’m playing loose and fast with dates as I didn’t save the article. Regardless yes these copies aren’t the way to go especially here, I am interested in the seagull movement just not in a bootleg

JwRosenthal · May 17, 2020

If it “looks” like an AT but is branded as another company, that’s fine- just like so many watches that are branded as other brands that “look” like a Rolex. If the intent is to deceive, that is a no-no.

This is a Chinese watch that got a lot of good press (and some bad as there were some reliability issues), but not a knock-off anything in particular but very familiar looking.😗
I had this same movement (Seagull ST-19) in an EMG watch and it was accurate within 1/sec- I was shocked.

gatorcpa · May 17, 2020

Walrus
I read an article how in the late 1800’s early 1900 the US was at the top of the watch tech with our watches designed for the railroads. The Swiss copied much of America’s tech at the time with the intent of becoming the top watch making country in the world.

That is more or less correct. The fact is that you actually had Americans that emigrated to Switzerland to do just that. Look up F. A. Jones and IWC for more on this.

The point that I am making (indirectly) is that if the copying is so blatant and subject to patents, the respective governments would be involved. The Swiss government is extremely protective of their watchmaking industry. Just look at how their government is protecting all the companies that refuse to sell parts to most independent watchmakers.

If the big boys like Rolex and Swatch aren't interested in legal action, neither am I.

So long as it doesn't say "Hormilton", "Omeqa" or "Folex" on the dial...
gatorcpa

wagudc · May 17, 2020

gatorcpa
Is it? The Swiss willingly sold the technology to produce these movements to Chinese companies years ago.

Swiss companies have been “knocking-off” other Swiss watch models for years.

Remind you of something? 😉😁

There is nothing new under the sun.
gatorcpa

I have no problem with Seagull movements that are based on out-of-copywrite, or Chinese watches that use legally obtained tech. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought that the OP was referring to watches you can get on eBay that are essentially copies of current models of Swiss watches. These copies are not homage watches that borrow many style elements and build on it. We are not talking 70 or 80% similar watches. The ones I have seen are externally 99% similar with everything but Omega
printed on the dial. I believe that there is considerable overlap between these and the outright fake industry.

As the thread that @KingCrouchy linked says there is a forum policy against discussion of such pieces on this forum (other than to condemn them).
.
I agree that there is some grey area, but l think that the OP was referring to were beyond the grey.

8100_RPM · May 17, 2020

Geez, I saw the topic and thought you were talking about some of my relatives. 🤦

gatorcpa · May 17, 2020

Jonathan40
Bought I watch that looks a lot like an Omega Aqua Terra, Miyota 21 jewel auto movement From a seller on the bay with over 20000 likes, I then looked at a pilot homage watch from a seller here in the UK but direct from China hand wound Seagull 6497 movement.

I'm not seeing that here. These seem to be watches similar to my Technos above. Design elements of other watches, but totally different movements.

The Technos has an older ETA movement. About 5 years after the Technos was produced, Omega had very similar ETA movements in their Constellations!

gatorcpa
So long as it doesn't say "Hormilton", "Omeqa" or "Folex" on the dial...

As I said above.
gatorcpa

wagudc · May 17, 2020

gatorcpa
I'm not seeing that here. These seem to be watches similar to my Technos above. Design elements of other watches, but totally different movements.

The Technos has an older ETA movement. About 5 years after the Technos was produced, Omega had very similar ETA movements in their Constellations!

As I said above.
gatorcpa

I will stop after this until we have more information. I would say that there are fakes on the bay fitting the OP's description. I found one of the no-logo watches that allows you to order it with a "custom" logo. Perhaps one might be fond of a certain Greek letter, and want that as part of their logo.

gatorcpa · May 17, 2020

The OP seems to know what he is talking about when it come to generic movements, so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyone who buys a $399 Speedmaster deserves...oh wait, that’s another thread!😲
gatorcpa

Professor · May 17, 2020

My Shaghai Watch Factory 90's re-issue is a decent watch with an excellent movement (21600 BPH IIRC). I like it even more since I got it for only 6 USD on the bay.

I suspect no one but me bid on it because of what looked like a cracked crystal but which turned out to be a slight scrape that polished out in less than a minute.
You can usually pick these up NOS for less than 40 USD.

There is a lot of product counterfeiting even of Chinese brands. Most Seagull 1963 watches are in fact non licensed copies. Apparently the original, if you can call a re-issue of a 50's milspec watch an original, are branded as "Sea-Gull" and cost nearly 400 USD , while the "Seagull" copies go for as little as 180 USD.
There has been no complaints from the original manufacturer, they let anyone copy this model, and so far the copies seem to be as good as the originals.

pongster · May 18, 2020

Got myself a seagull also. Read about it being “the” chinese watch to get. Couldnt find the exact one i was looking for. So settled for this. Not sure if authentic but seller say it is (what seller says otherwise anyway). 😀

pongster · May 18, 2020

This is what i was hunting.

https://wornandwound.com/review/a-look-at-the-seagull-1963/

JwRosenthal · May 18, 2020

P pongster
Got myself a seagull also. Read about it being “the” chinese watch to get. Couldnt find the exact one i was looking for. So settled for this. Not sure if authentic but seller say it is (what seller says otherwise anyway). 😀

That looks like a legit Seagull ST19. They did them in the silver and black and with acrylic and sapphire (earliest ones had solid backs). I was tempted by them as well as they are moderately sized and seem to have some sort of military provenance (at least the design does). Plus I believe there is a Seagull Venus connection if I recall.

Jonathan40 · May 18, 2020

wagudc
Among other things, the main fault of the watch is ethics.

Morning all, Thanks for all the chat on this so far.
I read the closed discussion provided in the link near the top.
I would never purchase a watch that had Omega or any other brand in type on the dial but was nothing more than cheap copy. I have plenty examples of the real thing and post them often in WRUW.
I purchased these for 2 specific reasons. Firstly to take a look for myself and what is possible for the money spent and how the movement performs alongside other movements in watches costing multiples of the amount paid.
I’m bearing in mind these pieces were about 1/8 of the cost of an auto watch service in a brand spa.
Second, if they are still working in 7 months and travel is permitted again I will take them to Vegas for a trip with friends and not worry for a moment what I have on my wrist or lying about in the hotel room.

tikkathree · May 18, 2020

P pongster
Got myself a seagull also. Read about it being “the” chinese watch to get. Couldnt find the exact one i was looking for. So settled for this. Not sure if authentic but seller say it is (what seller says otherwise anyway). 😀

And what do you think of it?
I bought one of the replica Chinese Air Force models with a seagull movement. It was just too pretty at a time in my working life when I appreciated bold and clear-at-arms length dial and hand contrast. I also took a dislike to the way the case tapers inwards from the sides to the back. No lume to speak of, no WR, I really had to be rid of it at the time but I hope yours is faring better.

pongster · May 18, 2020

tikkathree
And what do you think of it?
I bought one of the replica Chinese Air Force models with a seagull movement. It was just too pretty at a time in my working life when I appreciated bold and clear-at-arms length dial and hand contrast. I also took a dislike to the way the case tapers inwards from the sides to the back. No lume to speak of, no WR, I really had to be rid of it at the time but I hope yours is faring better.

The chronograph is not robust. Have to baby it.

Professor · May 18, 2020

I suspect that as a former military issue watch in a country with such a large military that there were dozens of sub contractors involved in the original manufacturing of these watches.
Probably several of these contractors maintained there tooling and long after the watch was no longer subject to military contracts they set up to produce these for the civilian market, buying parts they had not manufactured from others who did. There would be thousands of old timers to do the assembly work as a cottage industry.
There are minor variations in case and pushers, which is understandable.

Cheap Chinese

Jonathan40

KingCrouchy

wagudc

gatorcpa

Walrus

JwRosenthal

gatorcpa

wagudc

8100_RPM

gatorcpa

wagudc

gatorcpa

Professor

pongster

pongster

JwRosenthal

Jonathan40

tikkathree

pongster

Professor

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