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SpikiSpikester
··@ ΩFThat depends on what has happened with the Visa claim.
Can I make a claim for a counterfeit item?
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seamonster
·That depends on what has happened with the Visa claim.
Respectable Member SpikiSpikester
Your advice is appreciated.
It has been some while I last got in touch with my wife, whose card is tied to PayPal. She is inter-state, attending to her sick father. The next time, when we talk I shall find out from her, the progress of the charge-back.
Thank-you.
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Littleroger
·I wonder why he is interested now. I'd check with Visa first to see what they have done. Maybe they have contacted him and he's covering his bases.
R
R
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seamonster
·I wonder why he is interested now. I'd check with Visa first to see what they have done. Maybe they have contacted him and he's covering his bases.
R
Respectable Member Littleroger
Like you, I feel he has toned down a little, away from his usual style of bombarding me with uncalled for adjectives.
Once I can get in touch with my better-half, I will be able to know the progress of her charge-back application. Possibly, he was contacted by the relevant people.
The enjoyment of buying and selling on eBay for close-friends is now lost because of this one silly oversight, on my part..
Thank-you.
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MSNWatch
··Vintage Omega AficionadoRespectable Member Littleroger
Like you, I feel he has toned down a little, away from his usual style of bombarding me with uncalled for adjectives.
Once I can get in touch with my better-half, I will be able to know the progress of her charge-back application. Possibly, he was contacted by the relevant people.
The enjoyment of buying and selling on eBay for close-friends is now lost because of this one silly oversight, on my part..
Thank-you.
Don't relitigate the issue with him. Once you confirm that Visa has authorized the charge back then all you want from him is his shipping address and nothing more.
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Stewart H
·It has been some while I last got in touch with my wife, whose card is tied to PayPal. She is inter-state, attending to her sick father.
Respectable Member Seamonster.
I am sorry to hear about your father-in-law. I hope he makes a speedy (pardon the Omega reference) recovery and your wife is soon back with you.
As others have said, leave it in the capable hands of Visa.
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seamonster
·Don't relitigate the issue with him. Once you confirm that Visa has authorized the charge back then all you want from him is his shipping address and nothing more.
Respectable Member MSNWatch
I shall take your invaluable advice and not entertain the seller's request, via his latest email to me.
At one time, Visa instructed my better-half to return the item to him but when I asked him for his forwarding address, he just refused to give. His reluctance was brought to the attention of Visa.
I am waiting for my wife to get in touch with me.
Thank-you.
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seamonster
·Respectable Member Seamonster.
I am sorry to hear about your father-in-law. I hope he makes a speedy (pardon the Omega reference) recovery and your wife is soon back with you.
As others have said, leave it in the capable hands of Visa.
Respectable Member Stewart H
Your kind words and prayers are appreciated. Unfortunately, there is now no cure for dementia. This is rather sad.
As per your advice, I shall leave everything to Visa. I consider myself to be very lucky because without the advice and helpfulness of our respectable forums members, I do not know there is such a thing as 'Visa charge-back'. God is great.
Thank-you.
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seamonster
·Respectable Members
We have just received a letter from Visa that says, 'The Merchant's bank has now provided documentation to support the charge to your account. We suggest you look at the enclosed evidence and decide what you want to do next.'
The seller, mjsongin has claimed amongst others, the following to his banker.
a) This matter has already been resolved in MY favor by Ebay. This item was purchased thru Ebay, and is therefore a contract subject to Ebay's terms and conditions. Ebay closed this case in my (as seller) favor on July 20, 2013 - see documentation attached.
mjsongin did not attach the documentation from eBay to him. This is what eBay wrote to me and I cannot see any statement to say, the issue has been resolved in the seller's favor.
'I’m writing you about the Rolex Daytona watch (eBay Item #: 130895728972) that you recently purchased. I understand that you opened a case because you are concerned with the authenticity of the item. I wanted to give you more information on the status of your case.
You may have noticed that your case has been closed. A refund can't be issued because:
-- Case was filed past 4 days timeframe
When the item is not as described, we can cover for the item only if you dispute the transaction and open a case within 45 days form the day of payment. This transaction was not disputed within 45 and the item is no longer covered under ebay buyer protection program.
Here's more information about eBay Buyer Protection:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html
In summary, the case has been closed because the item is no longer covered under ebay buyer protection program and we can't provide a refund.
We appreciate your understanding.
Going over this case I noticed that you are with us since 2000 and among your 487 feedback responses you have some very nice comments from your trading partners. I would like to use this opportunity and thank you for being a valuable and loyal member of our community
Sincerely,
Davor N.
eBay Customer Service'
b) PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT THE BUYER/COMPLAINANT ALREADY CONFIRMED THE THE "ITEM IS AS DESCRIBED ..... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" in his original Ebay feedback. Copy attached.
I listed this 18K gold rolex daytona clasp for sale on Ebay. The buyer of my 18K gold Rolex Daytona Clasp, then has been trying to get out of buying this item since the moment he purchased it. First he claimed that he bought it for soemone else and that person changed their mind. Then he could not pay for it. The buyer claims that he is bying for someone else and that his sale deals for this item keep falling through, which is no my problem, and its almost two months after he purchased it from me on Ebay (May 6, 2013) - which is more than 50 days ago and beyond the 45 day time Ebay period to make this (baseless) claim.
c) These 18K gold Rolex Daytona Clasps are an EXTREMELY rare item, such that internationally you might see one only every couple of years for sale. They are not sold individually by rolex ever, so one only becomes available when an 18K Gold Rolex Daytona owner (I own 2 - one in stainless ($11,000) and one in 18K gold ($35,000) removes it from his watch to fit the watch with another type of strap. I purchased it from a Rolex dealer who is a international Chrono24.com "trusted seller" in February for $2,100 to put on my Rolex Gold President watch strap - then decided against using it. I paid for this item in February to that seller using my paypal account. The clasp is gorgeous and expensive. I documented all of this to Ebay high value claims dept.
This guy is doing everything he can to get his $$$ out of this clasp, and has now resorted to the b.s. strategy to convert this item into cash and get it out of his inventory by claiming that I sold him a fake.
BTW - he has also posted this item on the international Rolex forums website wherein he clearly stated that is buying this item for himself ... but immediately lies in his Ebay emails on 5/6/2013 that he purchased it for someone else and "they" back out of the deal (previously referred to in my opening comment here) ....
When he received the item - he left me great feedback. I have attached a copy of his Ebay feedback. Then he couldn't find a buyer or (whatever) 50 days later, he is running this scam thru ebay's resolution center - EBAY ALREADY RECECTED HIS CLAIM AFTER INVESTIGATION. I assume that you have access to all of the email's between he and I so you can follow the trail yourselves.
I have also provided to Ebay high value calims dept. my documentation on my purchase of this item and payment to the "trusted seller" thru paypal, as well as some info on that seller including his other rolex listings, phone numbers and his contact info ....
I always do business on the internet in MY OWN NAME on BOTH Ebay and Rolex Forums - I don't hide behind some anonymous identity. I am also a licensed professional CPA and licensed Certified Valuation Analyst - who maintains the highest professional credentials and qualifications in both professions. Hopefully that plus my ebay rating of 100% mean something.
Thanks
See attachments
(His name) CPA CVA
Kindly advise, what you think.
Thank-you.
We have just received a letter from Visa that says, 'The Merchant's bank has now provided documentation to support the charge to your account. We suggest you look at the enclosed evidence and decide what you want to do next.'
The seller, mjsongin has claimed amongst others, the following to his banker.
a) This matter has already been resolved in MY favor by Ebay. This item was purchased thru Ebay, and is therefore a contract subject to Ebay's terms and conditions. Ebay closed this case in my (as seller) favor on July 20, 2013 - see documentation attached.
mjsongin did not attach the documentation from eBay to him. This is what eBay wrote to me and I cannot see any statement to say, the issue has been resolved in the seller's favor.
'I’m writing you about the Rolex Daytona watch (eBay Item #: 130895728972) that you recently purchased. I understand that you opened a case because you are concerned with the authenticity of the item. I wanted to give you more information on the status of your case.
You may have noticed that your case has been closed. A refund can't be issued because:
-- Case was filed past 4 days timeframe
When the item is not as described, we can cover for the item only if you dispute the transaction and open a case within 45 days form the day of payment. This transaction was not disputed within 45 and the item is no longer covered under ebay buyer protection program.
Here's more information about eBay Buyer Protection:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html
In summary, the case has been closed because the item is no longer covered under ebay buyer protection program and we can't provide a refund.
We appreciate your understanding.
Going over this case I noticed that you are with us since 2000 and among your 487 feedback responses you have some very nice comments from your trading partners. I would like to use this opportunity and thank you for being a valuable and loyal member of our community
Sincerely,
Davor N.
eBay Customer Service'
b) PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT THE BUYER/COMPLAINANT ALREADY CONFIRMED THE THE "ITEM IS AS DESCRIBED ..... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED" in his original Ebay feedback. Copy attached.
I listed this 18K gold rolex daytona clasp for sale on Ebay. The buyer of my 18K gold Rolex Daytona Clasp, then has been trying to get out of buying this item since the moment he purchased it. First he claimed that he bought it for soemone else and that person changed their mind. Then he could not pay for it. The buyer claims that he is bying for someone else and that his sale deals for this item keep falling through, which is no my problem, and its almost two months after he purchased it from me on Ebay (May 6, 2013) - which is more than 50 days ago and beyond the 45 day time Ebay period to make this (baseless) claim.
c) These 18K gold Rolex Daytona Clasps are an EXTREMELY rare item, such that internationally you might see one only every couple of years for sale. They are not sold individually by rolex ever, so one only becomes available when an 18K Gold Rolex Daytona owner (I own 2 - one in stainless ($11,000) and one in 18K gold ($35,000) removes it from his watch to fit the watch with another type of strap. I purchased it from a Rolex dealer who is a international Chrono24.com "trusted seller" in February for $2,100 to put on my Rolex Gold President watch strap - then decided against using it. I paid for this item in February to that seller using my paypal account. The clasp is gorgeous and expensive. I documented all of this to Ebay high value claims dept.
This guy is doing everything he can to get his $$$ out of this clasp, and has now resorted to the b.s. strategy to convert this item into cash and get it out of his inventory by claiming that I sold him a fake.
BTW - he has also posted this item on the international Rolex forums website wherein he clearly stated that is buying this item for himself ... but immediately lies in his Ebay emails on 5/6/2013 that he purchased it for someone else and "they" back out of the deal (previously referred to in my opening comment here) ....
When he received the item - he left me great feedback. I have attached a copy of his Ebay feedback. Then he couldn't find a buyer or (whatever) 50 days later, he is running this scam thru ebay's resolution center - EBAY ALREADY RECECTED HIS CLAIM AFTER INVESTIGATION. I assume that you have access to all of the email's between he and I so you can follow the trail yourselves.
I have also provided to Ebay high value calims dept. my documentation on my purchase of this item and payment to the "trusted seller" thru paypal, as well as some info on that seller including his other rolex listings, phone numbers and his contact info ....
I always do business on the internet in MY OWN NAME on BOTH Ebay and Rolex Forums - I don't hide behind some anonymous identity. I am also a licensed professional CPA and licensed Certified Valuation Analyst - who maintains the highest professional credentials and qualifications in both professions. Hopefully that plus my ebay rating of 100% mean something.
Thanks
See attachments
(His name) CPA CVA
Kindly advise, what you think.
Thank-you.
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorWell at this point, I don't know what to tell you, other than to retain legal counsel in Australia and prepare for a fight. He seems to relying totally on the 50 days vs. 45 days eBay argument, which is irrelevant to the authenticity of this particular piece.
You need to keep in mind that VISA really can't tell who is in the right here, and since the merchant pays all their fees...🙁
One thing I can say is that as a CPA, I would never use my professional designation outside of the practice of public accounting or (in his case) business valuation. I feel is it is highly unethical. Being a CPA doesn't make me an expert on watch parts any more than being the curator of the Rolex museum would make me an expert tax accountant.
A good lawyer could tear this argument to shreds.
gatorcpa
You need to keep in mind that VISA really can't tell who is in the right here, and since the merchant pays all their fees...🙁
One thing I can say is that as a CPA, I would never use my professional designation outside of the practice of public accounting or (in his case) business valuation. I feel is it is highly unethical. Being a CPA doesn't make me an expert on watch parts any more than being the curator of the Rolex museum would make me an expert tax accountant.
A good lawyer could tear this argument to shreds.
gatorcpa
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Trev
··The ArchitectGator's right. Visa isn't Ebay and doesn't care about their dealings. You simply need to prove the part is counterfeit and submit that evidence to Visa. Rolex service would be the best bet, but I'd speculate a qualified watchmaker could also be enough weigh things in your favour (get a written statement on their letterhead, etc).
This guy sounds like BS artist more than anything, rambling on about points that aren't even relevant to the claim itself.
This guy sounds like BS artist more than anything, rambling on about points that aren't even relevant to the claim itself.
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X350 XJR
··Vintage Omega AficionadoeBay didn't have any opinion about the validity of your case against this jerk, they only closed the case because you missed the filing deadline, which has absolutely nothing to do with the authenticity of the clasp.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorUnfortunately Trev, I wish I could agree with you. A letter from a watchmaker isn't going to be enough. At this point, I think it's time to call out the "heavy artillery". I realize that it may be more difficult to bring legal action in Australia than here. This is not a surprise, given that the USA is the most litigious country ever.
However, a little story from my own experience might better illustrate my point. Many years ago, I was involved in a very minor traffic accident. Totally my fault. I did what you normally do, exchange addresses, insurance information, etc. and we both went on our way. Total damage to my car was zero. Damage to the other car was $400 which my insurance company promptly paid.
Several months later, I get a letter from my insurance company telling me that they were settling the claim of the other driver for a total of $100,000 in medical bills. She went out and got a good lawyer, who sent her to a "special" doctor, then wrote a letter regarding the total disability of this woman, who had 20+ years of treatment prior to the date of the accident (as per the attorney's letter). I asked the insurance company why they didn't fight the claim. They said that they would probably win, but the costs of investigation and court costs were likely to be more than the $100K the other side wanted to settle the case. They call this "hazards of litigation".
BTW, my auto insurance rate decreased at the next renewal! And I saved the attorney's letter in case I would ever require his services.
Never underestimate the power of a well written letter. Lawyers are professionals at this.
gatorcpa
However, a little story from my own experience might better illustrate my point. Many years ago, I was involved in a very minor traffic accident. Totally my fault. I did what you normally do, exchange addresses, insurance information, etc. and we both went on our way. Total damage to my car was zero. Damage to the other car was $400 which my insurance company promptly paid.
Several months later, I get a letter from my insurance company telling me that they were settling the claim of the other driver for a total of $100,000 in medical bills. She went out and got a good lawyer, who sent her to a "special" doctor, then wrote a letter regarding the total disability of this woman, who had 20+ years of treatment prior to the date of the accident (as per the attorney's letter). I asked the insurance company why they didn't fight the claim. They said that they would probably win, but the costs of investigation and court costs were likely to be more than the $100K the other side wanted to settle the case. They call this "hazards of litigation".
BTW, my auto insurance rate decreased at the next renewal! And I saved the attorney's letter in case I would ever require his services.
Never underestimate the power of a well written letter. Lawyers are professionals at this.
gatorcpa
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MSNWatch
··Vintage Omega AficionadoI thought Visa had already agreed to refund your money and that all that was needed was for you to send the item back. Is that not the case?
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seamonster
·Well at this point, I don't know what to tell you, other than to retain legal counsel in Australia and prepare for a fight. He seems to relying totally on the 50 days vs. 45 days eBay argument, which is irrelevant to the authenticity of this particular piece.
You need to keep in mind that VISA really can't tell who is in the right here, and since the merchant pays all their fees...🙁
One thing I can say is that as a CPA, I would never use my professional designation outside of the practice of public accounting or (in his case) business valuation. I feel is it is highly unethical. Being a CPA doesn't make me an expert on watch parts any more than being the curator of the Rolex museum would make me an expert tax accountant.
A good lawyer could tear this argument to shreds.
gatorcpa
Respectable Member gatorcpa
I agree with you, the reason why I was not refunded by eBay/PayPal is because, I missed the date-line of 45 days. I do not understand why the seller is still dreaming that eBay has resolved the issue, in his favor.
Agree, his professional accounting qualifications have nothing to do, with the the issue in question, now.
It is not possible for me to retain a legal counsel now, since the Visa card is under my better-half's name. Under the Confidentiality Act, even Visa will not want to speak to me, unless my wife is standing next to me or has given me the permission to speak to Visa.
Thank-you.
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seamonster
·eBay didn't have any opinion about the validity of your case against this jerk, they only closed the case because you missed the filing deadline, which has absolutely nothing to do with the authenticity of the clasp.
Respectable Member X350 XJR
Agree, missing the filing deadline does not make a counterfeit become authentic, all of a sudden.
Thank-you.
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seamonster
·Gator's right. Visa isn't Ebay and doesn't care about their dealings. You simply need to prove the part is counterfeit and submit that evidence to Visa. Rolex service would be the best bet, but I'd speculate a qualified watchmaker could also be enough weigh things in your favour (get a written statement on their letterhead, etc).
This guy sounds like BS artist more than anything, rambling on about points that aren't even relevant to the claim itself.
Respectable Member Trev
Two Rolex Service Center technicians confirmed the buckle is a counterfeit. Unfortunately, they would not give to me their opinion, in writing.
I agree with your speculation, the next best thing is to get a written statement from a professionally qualified watchmaker. I will take this advice of yours.
All along the seller made uncalled for allegations against me, in all his emails, and it is good for you to realize that he 'sounds like a BS artist'. Presumably, after his banker contacted him, only then his last email to me does not sound unpleasant.
"Please forward confirmation and documentation of your claim that Rolex deplayment (his spelling) clasp is not genuine
- mjsongin"
Thank-you.
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seamonster
·I thought Visa had already agreed to refund your money and that all that was needed was for you to send the item back. Is that not the case?
Respectable Member MSNWatch
Yes at one time, Visa asked me to return the counterfeit buckle to him. When I contacted him for his address, he refused to give it to me.
Thank-you.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerTwo Rolex Service Center technicians confirmed the buckle is a counterfeit. Unfortunately, they would not give to me their opinion, in writing.
I agree with your speculation, the next best thing is to get a written statement from a professionally qualified watchmaker. I will take this advice of yours.
Please let the watchmaker you take this clasp to know that the purpose of their letter will be to dispute a claim, and it might end up in court. He/she should know what they are getting themselves into....and don't be surprised if they also refuse to give you something in writing.
Personally I think the only thing that will carry weight in this regard is something from the manufacturer - Rolex.
Cheers, Al
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seamonster
·Please let the watchmaker you take this clasp to know that the purpose of their letter will be to dispute a claim, and it might end up in court. He/she should know what they are getting themselves into....and don't be surprised if they also refuse to give you something in writing.
Personally I think the only thing that will carry weight in this regard is something from the manufacturer - Rolex.
Cheers, Al
Respectable Member Archer
As per your advice, I shall inform the watchmaker the issue we have. Probably, I may also not be able to get something, in writing.
Of course, if the manufacturer can attest the buckle's authenticity, it is going to be the best option. How do I go about approaching Rolex Geneva? To write to those people there it will take some while, before I can get a response. Is there any chance we can email them and if so, what is their email address?
Thank-you.