Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

John C. Dueber was in the watch case business. He supplied cases to many of the American watch companies. Dueber was one who was not timid about getting embroiled in controversy. He had some peculiar ways of marking his watch cases for precious metal content. Cases marked “14 karat” that were in fact, gold filled, etc. Loopholes in federal precious metals marking legislation made this kind of quality marking possible. That was about to change! Other American watch case makers boycotted him, and it seems, the watch companies quit buying cases from him. So he bought the Hampden Watch Co. of Springfield, Mass., and in 1889, he moved the Hampden factory to Canton, Ohio. The Hampden Watch company became Hampden-Dueber, then Dueber.

This was in an era when the American watch companies were jockeying for market share. One of the ways used to get a “leg up” over the competition was by increasing the jewel count in their watches, and advertising these higher jewel counts. Most of the American watch companies seemed to feel that anything more than 23-jewels in a movement was excessive. But Illinois was the one company the irked Dueber by producing and advertising a 24, 25, and 26-jewel watches! Dueber countered by introducing the term “smokestack jewels” in his advertising. Interesting times in the American watch business.

This little artifact is not really in the main focus of what I collect. But it was a decent watch in its day. It was given to me more years ago than I can recall. The case, I suspect, is 18-karat gold, but there is no karat gold stamp on it. Being key wound and key set, I suspect it is Swiss, likely circa 1875 or so. It came to me with the bezel and glass missing. So I turned a bezel out of brass, and gold plated it, and fitted a Geneva glass crystal. The movement is jewelled lever, with 15-jewels. The balance cock,is marked in English, strangely. Fast & slow, not advance, retard. Made for export? I don’t know. The makers name is Arnold Billon, Locle, (Switzerland), and in all my searches, I have not found out anything about him. One interesting feature is the push button on top of the pendant is split. Push to one side of the button and the front cover opens. Press the other side of the button, and the back cover opens. The watch runs quite well on the odd occasion that I wind it.

Nice watch. I have a similar one but in a silver case still got the price tag 150.00 got it at the NAWCC mart I use to go to one of those were the price is so good you had to buy it. Think I got it cheaper than the price tag I always haggard on the price to get a better deal.

One similar to yours sold at auction in 2014.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/f-l-mathez-tramelan-switzerland- mans-pocket-82-c-b7530e65fa#

My late father was a watchmaker during the Great Depression. Like so many people in so many trades during the Depression, you generally didn’t throw items away when you thought you were through with them. Chances are, when a broken watch required a part that you just discarded, you regretted being short sighted. 80 and 90 years ago, what you might need was less accessible, and much harder to find than it is today. He maintained this attitude right up until he passed away in 1976. I inherited all the leftovers from a lifetime of pursuing his craft.

Recently, I happened upon a very collectible watch movement from the 1940s, that was among the stuff he left me. It is a wrist watch movement, not a pocket watch. It is an Omega 17T, which translates into a tonneau-shaped movement, 17mm from the 6 to the 12. It has its original dial which is a bit short of perfect, but it’s rather unusual hands are on it. And it runs!

I mention this, because there is NO CASE for it! And in my entire stash, the original case is simply not there! Like so many in his craft, his only interest was in broken watches and the repair of them. He had little to no concept of watches as collectibles! The consequences are that, after 50 years in the watch repair business, when he passed away, I inherited a collection of 10 watches! And hundreds of pounds of empty watch cases, bezels only, case backs only, dials only, and stray movements! Along with boxes filled with watch train wheels, watch winding wheels, partial watch movements, and on and on it goes! Same goes with the pocket watch stuff I have inherited.

I mention this all because, many of us who post on this message board work very hard, to gather and assemble these artifacts from a bygone era, and I regret that my late father didn’t follow this same philosophy. Collecting would be so much easier for us today, if this “stuff” had been respected more than it was by people like my father, back in the day.

Off my soap box.

A sad thing about the Great Depression is family heirlooms like pocket watches and even wristwatches the gold and sliver cases were sold for the metal content to get by and survive. So why you some times see more vintage movements with out the cases. They still got A-holes that do that today but not for the way they did it in the Great Depression but for greed different than to do it to survive to feed your family like in the Depression . At one NAWCC mart I was selling a recased E. Howard had this fool who wanted to test it for gold I told him it just looked like a gold hunter case the a-hole had to tested it after that he lost his want to buy it. He was one of those fools that show up at marts to melt down cases and throw away a beautiful pocket watch movement. It pissed me off.

I know exactly what you mean! Several years ago, I had a guy send me a gorgeous 24-jewel, 18-size Illinois pocket watch in a 14-karat gold case. The case was going to a scrapper, and he needed to know the weight of the case. Foolishly, I removed the movement, and weighed the case. I then offered him more for the watch than he would get if he scrapped the case. He thought about it, but he had a handshake deal with the scrapper, and he wouldn’t back out of it. Several months later, he phoned me and offered me the movement for $500. I told him to put it where the sun don’t shine! 😁

I posted in another thread this was incoming got it today first pocket watch I bought in years. Of course military issued. This one from WW1 issued to the US Corps of Engineers a Zenith. and Zenith also made a wristlet or trench watch for the US Army Signal Corps also in WW1. The crystal was loose had some rocket crystal glue over 10 years or more old still good surprised so re-glued the crystal.




A photo of it along side it's little brother funny both movements look the same except one smaller. Looking at inside case back there's about 5 or 6 service marks earliest 1935, 1937, 1938, 1941 cant read two of them this mite of been made for WW1 but mite of been in the supply chain for a long time and finely made it to war in WW2.

Military watches clearly aren’t designed to be the pinnacle of fashion from the outside. They speak “pure function”. But the Zenith is drop dead gorgeous once you open the case back. It is unusual for a century old watch to have retained the luminous material on the dial. You don’t say anything about the material in the case. It has a dent or two, so could it be coin silver, or sterling?

0,900 and has a swiss sterling mark that looks like a climbing lion. Been wanting to get a WW1 era corps of engineers pocket watch for a while. This one had the best price I seen in years sellers usually ask to much this one had a fair price . There's one WW1 issued corps of engineers pocket watch that's a chronograph that one will always be beyond my reach they always want to much for them.

Picked this up from service today I supplied the mainspring so got a cheaper deal on the service. I guess the biggest pocket watch in this post this won't fit in the pocket.

Every military watch collector should have a model 22. I don’t have one like yours, but I do have a model 22 in gimbals, in the box, with a carry case. Mine says hi!

Converted to a desk clock 😉

I recognize that one! It was in your grouping showed a few pages ago, highlighted here.



And also shown here.



We have made a pocket watch guy out of you. Your watch looks great on the brass stand!

A number of years ago, I was involved in an appraisal clinic. Many areas of collectibles were covered. I appraised watches and clocks. About 95% of what I was exposed to could best be described as sentimental worth, only. I found that most people were more concerned with learning about their items, with supposed “value” being less of a concern. As a result, I was able to send most folks away, having gained at least knowledge, if not stars in their eyes concerning value.

When I do these appraisal clinics, I have many reference books with me, in case. On one occasion, a couple brought me a drop dead gorgeous 18-size Illinois pocket watch with a private label dial marked for A N Anderson, Minneapolis. They were a retail jeweller, watch merchant, and railroad watch inspector. Surprise! Nowhere in any of my reference books could I find a listing for an A N Anderson private label Illinois! But here was one, right in front of me! Well, I gave them chapter and verse, and sent them away, happy. BUT, Stupidly, I didn’t take a picture of the watch! The chap who ran the clinic had a weekly radio show on antiques. I asked him to ask the owner to contact him so I could get a picture of it. He did that on each of his subsequent programs for several weeks, to no avail!

A N Anderson bought railroad watches from several watch manufacturers. On one occasion, he shipped a crate of 100 railroad watches from a variety of manufacturers, to Vancouver, B C (Canada). Upon unloading the crate from the freighter, the crate fell into the harbour! He arranged with a diver to retrieve the crate. He immersed all the watches in kerosene, and shipped them back to Minneapolis. Alas, the salt water had ruined the entire lot!

I would have dearly loved to include a picture of this scarce watch with this story. But, alas, I am unable!

Another tale from the past. My late father was a watchmaker who started learning the trade, 100 years ago, as an apprentice. That was in a Canadian prairie town named Viking, Alberta. After four years there, he went to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, where he worked for a retail jeweller for 16 years. While there, he met the woman who was destined to marry him, and to bear me. She was living in Saskatoon, was a housekeeper for a bachelor, and worked part time in a hair salon, doing “marcelling”, which was a popular style for women’s hair in the 1930s.

My mother's parents lived on a farm at Waldheim, Saskatchewan, which was just a dinky siding on the CNR railroad. On a visit to the farm, my grandfather showed my father an English pocket watch which was broken. My grandfather had sent the watch to Saskatoon several times, to try to find someone to fix it. To no avail, my father took it, and fixed it for him. This would have been in the late 1930s.

Until the day he died, my grandfather considered my father to be the only watchmaker in the world.

Fast forward to the early 1970s, and my wife and I were visiting an aunt in Saskatoon. She told me she had given my grandfather’s pocket watch to her son-in-law! Her daughter’s marriage to him didn’t last. So I have no idea where that watch might be, today. However, I fared quite well. She gave me my grandfather’s late 19th-century, 9-karat rose gold, Waldemar pocket watch chain which I take pride in. I have added a late 19th century half sovereign (gold English coin) and a 14-karat pocket knife to the chain.

l have sent you a link to a site for Swiss standard marks. I think the “climbing lion” you describe is actually a “bear” which is the Swiss standard mark for silver.

https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/swisshallmarks.php

Not really a very special watch from a horological perspective, but it tells a little story. A 12s private label Grade 235 (Model 1894) Waltham that was given as a gift in 1920. Apparently not used very much and perhaps never serviced. Still seemingly in the original box with the jeweler's name on the lining. I tell myself that it might have been a wedding or anniversary gift that the husband put away for safekeeping.

I confess I really do love timepieces with such engravings 👍