Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Well, time for another pocket watch.

Sometime in the late 1980s, I was at a collectibles show about 200 miles north of here. A vendor had a drop-dead gorgeous Elgin, grade 571 B W Raymond for sale. I considered the price to be fair, so I bought it. Some time later, I was talking to the secretary at my bank who knew I collected watches. She had an important anniversary coming up, and she was looking for a special gift. Her spouse was a long haul truck driver who hated wrist watches. She though he might like a pocket watch, and she asked me if I had one I would sell. By then, I had begun to focus on Hamilton pocket watches, so I offered her the Elgin. She bought it.

Fast forward to circa 2010, I was at an NAWCC Pacific North West Regional in Clackamas (Portland) Ore. A dealer had the subject watch for sale. A twin to the one had sold, but not as perfect. The price was okay, so I bought it.

The Elgin grade 571 has a weakness. A component in the lever setting mechanism is prone to fail after 50 years or so. That part in mine failed! I was no longer able to set the time. How good is that? Of course, enough of these grade 571s had that problem, that by the time mine failed, Elgin had been out of business for 50 years, and the part couldn’t be found. S LaRose was in business in Greensboro, North Carolina, at the time. They offered a kit comprising the setting components of a stem-set grade Elgin to permit a 571 to be converted to stem setting. I converted it. Many of the earlier models of the 16-size B W Raymond are much more visually interesting, and fancier than the 571. This is the only 16-size Elgin that I have.



Here’s the skinny on it. Produced about 1949, one of over 500,000 of this grade, so it is not rare. This one is from a run of 10,000 grade 571s, so it was just as popular as the Hamilton 992 Bs.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/V532415

Another one from the “I’ve never owned one” majority of watches.

The Packard Motor Car company in its heyday, had a program to encourage dealers and sales people to achieve greater sales. I don’t know a lot about their award program, but one incentive they offered for those who achieved the sales goals of the company, was the Packard watch. Not the Grande Complication that James Ward Packard had made, but nice watches, just the same.

These are 12-size watches that were made for Packard by the Hamilton Watch Co., of Lancaster Pa., and they were in karat gold cases. A very noticeable feature on the dials of these watches was the Packard motto, “Ask the Man Who Owns One” as shown on the subject watch (plug: if you own a Packard auto, and want one of these, this watch is currently listed for sale on a popular on line auction site!) The logo on the dial is printed inside a shield that mirrors the shape of the grille and hood outline of a 1920s or 1930s Packard auto. The case back would be engraved as to the recipients name, date, the award achievement, and the name of the company. In my own circle of friends who own Packard cars, two of them take very great pride in owning a Hamilton/made Packard pocket watch. The case back on this particular watch appears to never been engraved.

Another oddity in the world of watches. Have you ever heard of an “aluminum watch?” There is such a thing!

In the heyday of pocket watches, the Aluminum Company of America approached no less a watchmaking firm than Vacheron & Constantine to produce a series of pocket watches on which the watch case was made of aluminum.

Wait a minute, you say! Aluminum? Napoleon III, President of France served his honoured guests lavish dinners on aluminum plates. His rank and file guests were stuck with dishes made of gold and silver. Today, we think of aluminum as recycled pop cans. But at one time in its history, aluminum was revered as much as the noble metals.

Even in the era of the Vacheron & Constantine aluminum watch, aluminum held a much more prestigious role in society, than it does today. The cheapest of cheap watches today, often have cases made of aluminum. The watch:

Wow, they are nice, but they aren’t going for cheap

You got a Packard, you want a Packard watch, you pay! These Hamilton/Packard watches are a hot property among Packard owners. One acquaintance of mine usually has about a six pack of Packards (I like that, a six pack of Packards) stored here and there. And he is dealing in them, regularly. I’ll have to ask him how many of these
Hamiltons he owns.

If I had a six pack of Packards, a Packard pocket watch is probably what I’d pick

Clever play on words! 👍

I stared at it for quite some time and seeing the slight variations on the '1's (as well as a few other places) I figured it probably was hand painted.

Regardless, it's a beautiful dial.

Higher end/higher cost watches more likely to have been hand painted if decorative, the Industrial Revolution in the US with it's assembly line production/lowered cost allowed for this "pocket watch for everyman" industry to take hold and thrive. I would bet these watches had some kind of process derived from the printing trade to keep costs to a minimum.

Later, Henry Ford used this concept to great benefit to him and to the masses.

Early vitreous enamel dials were more likely to have been painted by hand. But stenciling, pad printing, and silk screen speeded up the dial decorating process.

How early is early?
That Oak Seth Thomas Regulator Clock I posted is from 1865 and has hand painted decorations.

@TexOmega ,

I went back as far as I could, looking for a Seth Thomas regulator clock that you posted, just to refresh my memory. Couldn’t find it. My post (above) referred to hand painted vitreous enamel dials. I am not aware that Seth Thomas might have used vitreous enamel dials. But as early as your Seth Thomas, the process for printing vitreous enamel dials in England, was quite advanced. Not so in the U S A.

Quoted from the pocket watch data base.com:

“Enamelled watch dials were common on European watch during the 17th century. When Aaron Dennison and Edward Howard pioneered the American watch industry in the 1850s, dial production (in America) proved to be a major challenge. Early attempts at manufacturing a (vitreous) enamel dial were unsatisfactory. In 1853, Dennison, and Howard sent John T Gold to Liverpool to learn the process of making (vitreous) enamel dials. Gold returned with ample knowledge of the manufacturing process and recipes for powdered enamel.”

In the early years of the American watch industry, many vitreous enamel dials were imported from England.

Sorry my mistake, it is this Seth Thomas Column Clock circa 1865 that has hand painted decorations.

But my comments were along the line that hand painted dials of both clock and watches were the norm for a long time and then mass production came along and I was betting a newer process was necessary to further reduce costs. I just didn't know the timeline for this switch.

And of course, no vitreous enamel on the clock dial in my example.

@TexOmega

I think the dial on your outstanding Seth Thomas clock is calcimine on zinc. I am certain that, by the time your clock was produced, there was a certain number of processes had been employed to speed up the making of dials. The floral trim appears to be hand done. And there was undoubtedly some hand work in doing the tablet.

Thomaston, Conn. (where Seth Thomas clocks were made), had been named Plymouth Hollow, until 1865 when the name was unofficially changed to Thomaston. The name change became official in 1875. So your clock is no older than 1865, being as the label is marked Thomaston.

Alarm feature, too!

high tech/modern, baby! 👍

My favourite YouTube videos about pocket watches are these ones with Vern Playton.

Edit: If I recall correctly, one of these talks about pocket watches that were given by a swanky brothel to their best customers. Of course, the gentlemen that received these watches couldn’t wear them around their wives, so these high-end watches tend to be in unworn condition

During WWII, an English female pitot belonged to the Auxiliary Air Force in Britain. It was her job to fly newly completed aircraft to bases in England. She was wearing a Victorian era pocket watch in her breast pocket when a German fighter aircraft accosted her, and let fly with a stream of 30 calibre bullets. Reports indicate that perhaps only one bullet hit the fortunate pilot.......hitting her where she was carrying the watch. I’ll,include he link if you want to read the whole article. Here is the watch!

Bullet

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...et--did-save-life-RAF-servicewoman-owner.html

Relating to an earlier post in this thread regarding vitreous enamel dials. A copper substrate is used in forming these dials. This watch has a vitreous enamel dial. You can plainly see the copper substrate under the vitreous enamel. What is left of the name on the dial appears to be Waltham, U S A.


The military charity had the watch donated. It is engraved with a name and her id number. The charity is trying to trace the family. Oh what stories pocket watches tell!

The skinny on @Mad Dog ’s outstanding Hamilton 992. This one was produced the year before the introduction of the 992E. Hark! Is that an @DaveK miracle braid leather lanyard thereon? The case? The detail on the Hamilton case in my Shugart book aren’t clear enough for me to be certain of the case model #. That watch is in outstanding condition!

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/hamilton/2568212