Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

And here a nice English watch, Joseph Penlington 1882, minute repeater. The escapement is "normal" English lever. But not the balance/hairspring arrangement. The hairspring is a so-called triple overcoil.

Even someone who was brought up on “wieners and beans”, and can’t see past their noses when looking over the usual American made stuff we generally see in this hemisphere, can appreciate “caviar” when we see it. I am not averse to English made watches totally, unless it happens to be a fusee type. But the two watches @Bernhard J has shown here are very fine examples.

Bought this as a "buy now" on a local auction site earlier on this week, poorly described with no movement picture or serial but working on the 24 hour dial and the described coin silver case I surmised it was a much better watch than the poor description portrayed and after some sleuthing I was able to find the sellers phone number and the call that followed allowed me to make a more informed decision.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/5716764

I have no idea when it was last serviced other than the 1906 inscription of a service however in every position I run it in its daily rate is within 4 to 6 seconds ( 6 positions I checked it in) on a full wind, will look again when it's halfway wound down.

These movements apparently were approved for railway use by some railways use prior to standards being set.

Yes that's the only thing that's not original the minute hand as far as I can tell.
After I checked it from full wind for 5 hours this was how it performed.

Probably needs a service at some stage if just to get the beat error a bit better but I am in no hurry at all.

Just bought at auction this Illinios, now the waiting begins for it to be in my sweaty palms!

Cherry! Here is the pocketwatchdatabase info on @ghce ’s recent find.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/4095857

Looking that good in the pictures, it’ll probably look even better in the flesh. They’re out there, folks, so keep looking!

Don't know what's up with that red sub second, maybe a buyer request at purchase, seller who has had it for "decades" said it came with it on.

Apparently in perfect working order but of course after all those years will likely need a service if I intend to use it with any frequency.

Look closely at the minutes chapter ring. The markers at the 12 5 minute markers are also red! The sub seconds hand colour matches the markers on the dial. It most likely came from the factory that way. I suggest you leave it. Odd that the 5 minute markers are spherical, matching the spherical five minute markers on the dials of Ball ORRS models.

Pretty sure I have seen some Illinois with the red hour markers so didn't rouse and curiosity in me.
The grade maybe RR approved but that red second hand wouldn't be as not blued, well that's my understanding, so not a service watch.

Inside the case back is apparently not marked with the usual proliferation of watch repairer marks. So it may not ever have seen service in the bib overall pocket of a railroader. It has long been my opinion that time service rules as set down by individual railroads were open to individual interpretation. Witness the Canadian Pacific Railroad time service rules that permitted Waltham 1883 models which had single roller, and stem (not lever) set.

Notice my 1883 model Waltham with the CPR logo on it. Those hands likely wouldn’t have been acceptable by subsequent time service rules, it is single roller, and stem set! AND Roman numerals, I also have several 1883 model Walthams marked Canadian Railroad Time Service, one of which has a private label dial. Private label dials were not permitted by subsequent time service rules. But it seems these Walthams were approved for railroad use! Go figure! It appears as though individual railroads used the time service rules as set down by Webb C. Ball as a basis for their own time service rules. But unless they subscribed to Ball’s service, they could pick and choose what was important to them.

Illinois Bunn model 9 arrived in yesterday,very pleased with it, may need a service to sort beat error or I can just live with it but then again this probably hasn't seen a service in many decades.
Case and dial are perfect.

Here is the pocketwatchdatabase story on @ghce ’s handsome Illinois. He was uncertain if the red seconds hand was original at one point. But the red matches the red balls in the minutes chapter ring. Odd, but the Ball Watch Co. used black round markers on their ORRS railroad watches. I thought Ball had copyrighted them! Who knows?

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/illinois/4089857

I had a challenge presented to me today. An 18-size Hamilton grade 940 pocket watch. Barely running! Needed a balance staff. I had one. As usual, I did a trial fit to see if the staff length and pivots sizes were okay. They were. But as I looked closely at the staff, it wasn’t vertical! Odd, I thought! I fitted the new staff to the balance wheel, trued it, poised it, and watched it to see how it ran. It did, sort of. Upon exploring the watch more closely, I found that the serial number on the balance cock didn’t match the serial number of the movement! The serial number on the balance wheel was different to the movement, and balance cock. Face up, the watch quit. The rim of the balance rubbing under the balance cock. Lowered the balance and then trued it again. Now the rim of the balance was rubbing on the bridge over the train wheels. Raised the balance so it was no longer rubbing, but still stopped face up! Whoever put the hole jewel and cap jewel in the balance cock didn’t seat them, so now, the hairspring collet was rubbing the balance cock, face up. Fixed that. It ran well for a time both face up and face down, but quit again! I had to oil the safety dart on the pallet fork as it grabbed the safety roller on the balance staff on occasion! I think it is now done. I’ll have a better idea in the morning.

Most American made watches can be found to have the serial number of the movement stamped onto the under side of the bridges. This was because, as much as we like to think uniformity among movement components was guaranteed. Not so! This watch is an example of what happens when you mix up the parts! The parts on American movements all had the s# on them so they would stay together during manufacture. The picture is not the problem 940, but a 940 from my collection.

Came across this interesting site when it comes to adjusting pocket watches ( or Wrist watches for that matter)

https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/what-is-watch-adjusting/

Makes great reading following this guy's processes and rationale as he repoises balance wheels and tracks down other underlying causes for poor timing accuracy.

Here is the pocketwatchdatabase info on @TexOmega ’s lucky find.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/193593

I have a Waltham 1857 as well. Mine is about 10 years newer. Coin silver case, but open faced. Mine is a good runner, but not a great timekeeper.