Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

TexOmega · Mar 16, 2023

Canuck
Late in the 19th century, the subject of jewels in watches became an issue. Especially, watches with higher jewel counts. The very rare Hampden Special Railway watch shown by @TexOmega was produced by the Hampden Watch Co., and has 21-jewels. Hampden also produced a 23-jewel version. The Illinois watch Co. joined the fray, and produced a 24-jewel version. Watches with 25, 26-jewels, and 28-jewels also were produced by U S watchmakers. Needless to say, jewel counts became a big issue in watch advertising of the day, every maker seeking to gain a leg up in the battle for market share.

The Hampden Watch Co. was acquired by John Dueber of the case making firm, the Dueber Watch Case Co. Hampden became the Dueber Hampden Watch Co. Because Hampden had never produced a watch with more than 23-jewels, John Dueber countered the ads for higher jewel count watches produced by others by introducing the term “smokestack jewels” into Hampden Watch advertising. Essentially implying that these added jewels did nothing to improve the performance of those watches.

This preamble leads to discussion of the subject watch. Recently, one of the local watch repair fraternity called me, asking for help. He had a “Washington” watch for which he had been unable to locate a new balance staff. Why? Because there never was a “Washington” watch. The name was a house brand name for Illinois watches as sold by the U S Department store chain, Montgomery Ward. This chap asked me if I would make a balance staff for the watch. He sent me the watch. It is a rare 24-jewel, model 5, 18-size Illinois movement, marked on dial and movement, Washington! I had 18-size Illinois balance staffs on hand, but for a different model. The only dimension that was correct on the replacement staff was length, and the hub for the balance wheel. I had to reduce the sizes of the pivots, reduce the size of the roller table portion, and reduce the size of the hairspring collet portion. Job done.

This “Washington“ Illinois) watch with 24-jewels is rather a rare one. I have only ever seen one other over many years. It is an example of what John Dueber called a watch with “smokestack” jewels.

23j?....Indeed they did......

Hampden 18s
Model 3
23j Railway Special, Two-tone movement with gold jewel settings
Circa 1903. serial # 1836478
RR grade, RR approved

Inside my second Dueber-Hampden display case

And if the database is accurate, kinda rare, too

Waltesefalcon · Mar 16, 2023

noelekal
I think I need an example of a big Illinois 18 size watch.

I have about half a dozen. If you would really like one I may be willing to part with one.

Waltesefalcon · Mar 16, 2023

Fritz
You got it, I’ll likely unload a bunch... just to get my shit in order.

I'd be happy to call dibs on any of the ones you've been showing off.

Canuck · Mar 16, 2023

TexOmega
23j?....Indeed they did......

Hampden 18s
Model 3
23j Railway Special, Two-tone movement with gold jewel settings
Circa 1903. serial # 1836478
RR grade, RR approved

Inside my second Dueber-Hampden display case

And if the database is accurate, kinda rare, too

Will wonders never cease! I’ve heard of the 23-jewel Hampden Special Railway, but this is the first one I’ve seen. This one was produced after Dueber bought Hampden, and established their factory in Canton, Ohio. Eventually, I believe the Hampden Watch became Dueber.

noelekal · Mar 17, 2023

Just arrived, this Waltham Riverside.

I think it was Webb C. Ball who claimed that no better performance could be had than a 19-Jewel Waltham. At least I seemed to have read that somewhere. This one's going to need a service for it's a little slow, losing about 50 seconds per day. It's also a bear to wind beyond about half wound up. It appears to be a pretty sharp watch.

Canuck · Mar 17, 2023

If Webb ball said that a 19-jewel Waltham was as good a time keeper, as could be had. I think I would agree with him although he did have watches made for him that had as few as 11 jewels, and as many as 23 jewels so I don’t know what he really meant certainly that the 19 jewel version wouldn’t likely be any better time keeper, but it would be as good as the best I would suspect once it was properly repaired, and properly adjusted. I suspect your watch is hard to wind because the crown is absolutely worn out and certainly I suppose if the movement needed it conditioning, it might make a difference in the winding once everything was properly cleaned and lubricated. Nice watch.

JimInOz · Mar 17, 2023

noelekal
..............little slow, losing about 50 seconds per day. It's also a bear to wind beyond about half wound up..............

Could be that an incorrectly sized mainspring was fitted at a previous service?
That could account for timekeeping and winding stiffness.
Nice watch, so off to the watchmaker is a good idea.

DaveRam · Mar 19, 2023

Still trying to get some history on this watch. Finally have some photos of the innards. Unfortunately it’s not listed in the Imega Database.

Canuck · Mar 19, 2023

Movement looks like calibre 37.5 T1, about 10-size, bog stock for Omega during the 1920s. Looks like 15-jewels, 2 position adjustments, temperature compensating, bi-metallic balance wheel, not likely a high performance grade, looks as though the hairspring has been messed with. The case is of art deco style, marked 14-karat, white gold, likely American made. The B W C Co. trade mark shows in my reference material, but who the case maker is, is not known to me. Silvered metal dial, horrible old yellowed plastic crystal has seriously off-gassed, and rusted the hands, probably beyond salvaging.do you have specific questions?

ghce · Mar 22, 2023

Just bought this one tonight, just liked the look and the movement appears to be of reasonable quality for an everyday Swiss.

Seller pics

Canuck · Mar 22, 2023

Still wearing my A W Co. (American Waltham Co.) 18-size, 1877 model (made circa 1885). I find this watch becomes magnetized rather more easily than many of my watches of this vintage. I had it regulated to within seconds per day, a rate it maintained for about one week. Then out of a clear blue sky, it began to gain a minute or so in a day. A trip through the demagnetizer, and it is back to running within seconds per day. The rest of my pocket watches are planning a revolt because this is the only pocket watch I’ve worn over the last month. Shown on my @DaveK leather lanyard.

Duracuir1 · Mar 22, 2023

Canuck
Still wearing my A W Co. (American Waltham Co.) 18-size, 1877 model (made circa 1885). I find this watch becomes magnetized rather more easily than many of my watches of this vintage. I had it regulated to within seconds per day, a rate it maintained for about one week. Then out of a clear blue sky, it began to gain a minute or so in a day. A trip through the demagnetizer, and it is back to running within seconds per day. The rest of my pocket watches are planning a revolt because this is the only pocket watch I’ve worn over the last month. Shown on my @DaveK leather lanyard.

What can cause it to get magnetized so easily?

Canuck · Mar 22, 2023

Duracuir1
What can cause it to get magnetized so easily?

Well, with a steel hairspring, a bi-metallic, temperature compensating balance wheel which is about 70 % steel, these old guys magnetize quite easily. I work on quartz watches, and I use non-magnetic tweezers, but my screwdrivers are affected. I might have used a magnetized screw driver once, when I moved the regulator. Easy to diagnose and to solve.

Duracuir1 · Mar 26, 2023

From a second hand store. Nice book for $.50 and almost every page contains the subject watch, or some other watch.

This is just a few of the 65 pages. The back cover has a summary… and although I am not an expert, I doubt that this style of watch - with a crown - would have existed during the American Civil War.

Canuck · Mar 26, 2023

I wonder if the publisher of this item, knew what “going commando” mean in the military! 😁

ghce · Mar 27, 2023

Just got these in today all seem to have good balance staffs.

Canuck · Mar 27, 2023

The “Traveller” was a model name applied to Walthams that were exported to England. That is quite a haul! Now for cases for them. That will bring another challenge. Number 6585209 is an 1884, 14-size model. Here is the pocketwatchdatabase listing for it. This was a move away from the full plate designs that Waltham made so many of, with the balance wheel sitting atop the top plate. This design is reminiscent of the very earliest 18-size, full plate models with the balance wheel between the plates. S# 8553565 is also a 14-size. I haven’t seen too many of this rather unusual size.

ghce · Mar 28, 2023

Canuck
The “Traveller” was a model name applied to Walthams that were exported to England. That is quite a haul! Now for cases for them. That will bring another challenge. Number 6585209 is an 1884, 14-size model. Here is the pocketwatchdatabase listing for it. This was a move away from the full plate designs that Waltham made so many of, with the balance wheel sitting atop the top plate. This design is reminiscent of the very earliest 18-size, full plate models with the balance wheel between the plates. S# 8553565 is also a 14-size. I haven’t seen too many of this rather unusual size.

Did some research on the seller, they are a company that specialises in coins and and watches etc ie they will have got them as complete and did the dirty by scrapping the gold cases, same seller as the one earlier on this page. Such a shame as some of these cases will be hard to find re-casing them but it does look like the movements for the most part are in good working or close to working order and are clean.
I particularly like the Grade 620 movements, shame none are RR grade but I am thinking that they will probably crop up in time from this same seller.

ghce · Mar 28, 2023

Canuck
The “Traveller” was a model name applied to Walthams that were exported to England. That is quite a haul! Now for cases for them. That will bring another challenge. Number 6585209 is an 1884, 14-size model. Here is the pocketwatchdatabase listing for it. This was a move away from the full plate designs that Waltham made so many of, with the balance wheel sitting atop the top plate. This design is reminiscent of the very earliest 18-size, full plate models with the balance wheel between the plates. S# 8553565 is also a 14-size. I haven’t seen too many of this rather unusual size.

Cases will be a challenge for sure, the best supply is from the States but now days freight is absolutely ridiculous with it being about NZ$100.00 for freight alone even though the case might only be 10 or 20 bucks to buy!
Will have to place some wanted ads in the classified buy sell section on this forum as eBay is just bonkers with its shipping costs and policies.

Fritz · Mar 29, 2023

Today’s lumps.....

interesting thing, I have this old Enfield clock in the living room. It died about ten years ago and no amount of oil, love or tinkering could coax the old thing back to life. About two weeks ago I was dusting and shifted it about to clean it a bit and the silly thing started ticking. I went back later and it was still at it so I set it and sat back to see how it would go... two weeks and one winding later its still going, and its keeping good time... WTF!