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Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

SOG53
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Hamilton Model 23 Deck watch used on medium size ships WWII. Rarer silver Caseback most were steel.
22B44268-A39D-4DB9-B34B-AB592438DA2B.jpeg 43D40632-76BD-4190-A947-297F8150890F.jpeg
 
Canuck
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SOG53 SOG53
Did they start with silver and then switch for cost savings for later runs?

I doubt there was a change from sterling to base metal for reasons of cost. I don’t know what proportion of the cases were sterling, but I suspect the sterling case may have been used during much of the 1942-1946 production cycle of the model 23. But I am certain the sterling case comprised only a small proportion of total production. I think I have only ever seen one sterling case over many decades.
 
ghce
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Came across this tonight, where does it fit in the grand scheme of Illinois Pocket Watches.

illinois watch 3.jpg illinois watch 1.jpg illinois 4.jpg illinois 2.jpg
 
Canuck
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Please provide the serial number of the movement. Too much glare in your pictures!
 
Danwales
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20221205_170314.jpg 20221205_170327.jpg
My watchmaker (93 this year) friend has this old pocket watch on his bench. It needs a balance so I said I would see if I could find him one online. Problem is there is no information on these watches. Topy watch Co anybody?
 
Canuck
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noelekal noelekal
4801327?

The Meggers & Ehrhardt “Blue Book” lists 4801327 as 12-size, medium grade, pendant set, double roller, gold beveled and polished centre wheel, adjusted to temperature, 6 positions, isochronism, medium striped pattern, nickel plates, jewels in settings, patent regulator, black filled engraving open faced model 3, grade 405. The grade 405 was Illinois’ highest production 12-size grade with over 400,000 produced. Also seen engraved with “Autocrat”. The grade 405 was extensively used in private label watches.

Not rare, not railroad grade, 12-size models are not extremely popular among collectors. This model introduced circa 1922, but this example was made circa 1927-28. Ten karat gold filled Fahy’s Montauk case. Watch appears to be in average to good condition. Very attractive movement.
 
ghce
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Canuck Canuck
The Meggers & Ehrhardt “Blue Book” lists 4801327 as 12-size, medium grade, pendant set, double roller, gold beveled and polished centre wheel, adjusted to temperature, 6 positions, isochronism, medium striped pattern, nickel plates, jewels in settings, patent regulator, black filled engraving open faced model 3, grade 405. The grade 405 was Illinois’ highest production 12-size grade with over 400,000 produced. Also seen engraved with “Autocrat”. The grade 405 was extensively used in private label watches.

Not rare, not railroad grade, 12-size models are not extremely popular among collectors. This model introduced circa 1922, but this example was made circa 1927-28. Ten karat gold filled Fahy’s Montauk case. Watch appears to be in average to good condition. Very attractive movement.

Thanks very much for that, just available locally but wanting too much cash, in non running condition with a poor looking dial. Interesting that it's adjusted for 6 positions though I can't see that inscribed on it so I would say a lower grade example of the calibre.
 
Canuck
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The “Blue Book” indicates that some were marked adjusted (yours), and others were marked 6 position. I believe Bill Meggers.
 
ghce
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Canuck Canuck
The “Blue Book” indicates that some were marked adjusted (yours), and others were marked 6 position. I believe Bill Meggers.

I might explore it further with the seller as I have dealt with him before and might get a much better price (asking NZ125.00) the kicker being year of manufacture is the same as my new to me vintage Austin car 1928.
 
Canuck
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ghce ghce
I might explore it further with the seller as I have dealt with him before and might get a much better price (asking NZ125.00) the kicker being year of manufacture is the same as my new to me vintage Austin car 1928.

Our Canadian dollar is only 86 cents compared to your NZ dollar! That’s only $145.00 (Cdn.). Why are you on the fence? Buy it, for goodness sake!
 
ghce
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CAD $108.00 = NZD125.00
Have messaged the seller to ask some Q's
 
Canuck
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An excerpt from the Meggers & Ehrhardt “blue book” describing the 12-size Illinois grade 405 movement.

6CEFB2B9-2038-4A22-84DA-B9C5F29FEEE1.jpeg
 
TexOmega
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SOG53 SOG53
Did they start with silver and then switch for cost savings for later runs?



As with WWII wrist watches, if one had the rank, contacts and desire, a silver cased pocket watch could be procured.

A very low number compared to chrome cased watches.
 
Pvt-Public
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Canuck Canuck
I believe the model 23 and other military Hamiltons also came with chrome plated cases. The sterling one (the subject watch) is indeed desirable.
I always thought .925 was sterling silver and .800 was coin silver. But I have been wrong before.
 
noelekal
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Back in the day when silver coins were struck for general circulation in the U. S., they were .900. Fineness varied by nations though so don't know for certain what "coin silver" indicates.
 
Canuck
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Pvt-Public Pvt-Public
I always thought .925 was sterling silver and .800 was coin silver. But I have been wrong before.

You are correct. Sterling is .925, and coin is usually .800, or .900. I mentioned the model 23 was in a sterling case, when in fact it is indeed marked .800. My bad,
 
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