Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

Canuck · Nov 24, 2022

I’ll see you, and raise you one! Two for the wrists, and one for the pocket. My 1989 Rolex Date-Just on my left wrist, my early 1950s Omega calibre 351 on my right wrist, and my Hamilton 950B in my watch pocket. Two wrists, one watch pocket! I’m handicapped! The canary isn’t saying peep!

Canuck · Nov 26, 2022

A story of a fellow who collected watches. He might have been one of the earliest Watch collectors. He died in 1532 (that’s right), and the watches of the era were likely huge verge and foliot watches, too large to carry in a pocket. They were likely cumbersome, unreliable, and inaccurate. And carried in a pouch, rather than a pocket. In that era, pockets in gents clothing was not in fashion.

This excerpt is from Brittens Watches and Clocks and their Makers.

After Mrs Robertet inherited his collection, it is rumoured that she spent the rest of her life winding up his estate! 😁

JimInOz · Nov 27, 2022

Canuck
A story of a fellow who collected watches. He might have been one of the earliest Watch collectors. He died in 1532 (that’s right), and the watches of the era were likely huge verge and foliot watches, too large to carry in a pocket. They were likely cumbersome, unreliable, and inaccurate. And carried in a pouch, rather than a pocket. In that era, pockets in gents clothing was not in fashion.

This excerpt is from Brittens Watches and Clocks and their Makers.

After Mrs Robertet inherited his collection, it is rumoured that she spent the rest of her life winding up his estate! 😁

😵‍💫

I just saw this and thought I was either capable of seeing into the future, or just going mad, but then I figured it was simply Déjà vu all over again (get it? 😁).

https://omegaforums.net/threads/som...rait-of-a-clock-collector-circa-1550s.152988/

Canuck · Nov 27, 2022

@JimInOz ,

You had seen this subject earlier. I posted it originally in the thread showing the painting of a 16th century clock collector. One can never know who haunts which threads on the MB.

JimInOz
😵‍💫

I just saw this and thought I was either capable of seeing into the future, or just going mad, but then I figured it was simply Déjà vu all over again (get it? 😁).

https://omegaforums.net/threads/som...rait-of-a-clock-collector-circa-1550s.152988/

noelekal · Nov 29, 2022

Here's a second Waltham gathered in fall of 2021, this one a Crescent Street with wind indicator. Shows to date to 1915. I've kept this one wound with frequent wear in a jeans watch pocket on since we returned from vacation. Looks like it's gaining a minute per week.

Here's the tree that appears in the photo of the case's reverse side.

UncleBuck · Nov 29, 2022

Bryan, welcome home!
Can you discuss the unusual upper subdial? I've not seen this.

Canuck · Nov 29, 2022

noelekal
Here's a second Waltham gathered in in fall of 2021, this one a Crescent Street with wind indicator. Shows to date to 1915. I've kept this one wound with frequent wear in a jeans watch pocket on since we returned from vacation. Looks like it's gaining a minute per week.

Here's the tree that appears in the photo of the case's reverse side.

Ooooohh! Niiiice! You’ve been active in this thread since it was inaugurated, and you’ve hidden that delectable from us? How come?

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/20142091

Not rare, according to the pocketwatchdatabase.com listing, but certainly rare in that condition! I’m not aware that I have ever seen a Crescent Street with an up/down indicator before.I need to find out the places you haunt, and try to be a few steps ahead of you! 😁

Canuck · Nov 29, 2022

UncleBuck
Bryan, welcome home!
Can you discuss the unusual upper subdial? I've not seen this.

@UncleBuck ,

I think you are referring to the subsidiary dial beneath the 12:00. The watch is fitted with a winding reserve (up/down) indicator. In the picture of the dial, the indicator hand points at “UP”, indicating the watch is fully wound. At the other end of the dial is the number 24, and ”DN”, (for down). The indicator hand traverses the dial, clockwise. This watch should run 40 hours or more on a full wind, so the hand will keep on going, past the DOWN, until the watch runs down, and quits. During winding, the hand will return, moving counter-clockwise, back to the UP position.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2022

Canuck
@UncleBuck ,

I think you are referring to the subsidiary dial beneath the 12:00. The watch is fitted with a winding reserve (up/down) indicator. In the picture of the dial, the indicator hand points at “UP”, indicating the watch is fully wound. At the other end of the dial is the number 24, and ”DN”, (for down). The indicator hand traverses the dial, clockwise. This watch should run 40 hours or more on a full wind, so the hand will keep on going, past the DOWN, until the watch runs down, and quits. During winding, the hand will return, moving counter-clockwise, back to the UP position.

Thank you, Doug!
If I understand correctly, the hand stops at UP when fully wound, counts down 24 hrs. to the DOWN position but then will continue past the D'N in a clockwise direction until the watch stops.

Bryan, would you happen to have a photo showing the fully unwound position?

Canuck · Nov 30, 2022

My Vanguard indicator hand indicates that the watch is completely unwound.

noelekal · Nov 30, 2022

UncleBuck
Thank you, Doug!
If I understand correctly, the hand stops at UP when fully wound, counts down 24 hrs. to the DOWN position but then will continue past the D'N in a clockwise direction until the watch stops.

Bryan, would you happen to have a photo showing the fully unwound position?

I'll let the Crescent Sreet run down and take a photograph.

noelekal · Nov 30, 2022

I'm borrowing Mad Dog's neato pair of Elgins with wind indicators that he recently featured. I'm making use of them as illustration for a question I have about wind indicator desirability.

I've watched wind indicator pricing and "sold prices" on both Elgin wind indicator and Waltham wind indicator models on Ebay for some time. It would seem that on average, the Elgin models with wind indicators are priced higher and do realize more money than wind indicator Waltham models.

I read on a thread found on NAWCC of discussion where best quality Elgin was considered just a smidgen lower in quality generally than the best of Waltham, Illinois, and Hamilton. Now I take everything read on hobby forum threads with a grain of salt. The poster was making a point that the finish quality of the parts and of the underside of the plates on Elgins are not as finely crafted as the other three and that watchmakers realize this.

I don't know anything about it and am not going to dismantle and inspect my watches. I know that the two Elgins I've acquired so far, a 19-jewel B. W. Raymond from 1918 and a Veritas with 270 movement from 1904 sure do have eye popping movements, very pleasing to view, and they keep decent time, as well as any watch with unknown service history could be depended upon to keep time. In the vintage pocket watch world, is the Elgin the Benrus compared to Longines, Omega, or Rolex? Or, are Elgins every bit as fine and serviceable as the other makers of the pocket watch heyday?

Elgin wind indicator pocket watches are apparently highly regarded if prices are any indication. I happen to know where a really appealing Elgin Father Time with wind indicator is languishing in a pawn shop in a small Texas town northwest of Abilene, Texas. The guy came down on the price when I expressed an interest, but I didn't bite at the time. Next time I'm back out there, driving past the pawn shop, I'm going to revisit that Elgin. I need an Elgin with wind indicator. Then I can be half as cool as Mad Dog is.

Meanwhile here are the two wind indicator Walthams, the 1924 23 Jewel Vanguard and the 1914 21 jewel Crescent Street.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2022

You are full of surprises, my friend!
Why do I hear Marty Robbins when I read your posts?

Canuck · Nov 30, 2022

Whose posts remind you of Marty Robbins, and why?

UncleBuck
You are full of surprises, my friend!
Why do I hear Marty Robbins when I read your posts?

Waltesefalcon · Nov 30, 2022

I do not consider Elgin watches to be as nice as Illinois nor Hamilton pieces, however, that is not to say that they are not well made. I learned how to service watches primarily on Elgins, twenty years ago they were plentiful and cheap, so that is what I usually bought. The first time I opened up an Illinois it was like going from working on on a Ford F150 to working on a Cadillac.

Canuck · Nov 30, 2022

My 1902, 18-size, 19-jewel Elgin B W Raymond I contend, is as spectacular as equivalent models from the other
U S A watchmakers.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2022

Canuck
Whose posts remind you of Marty Robbins, and why?

noelekal
a small Texas town northwest of Abilene, Texas.

This Gentleman from Texas, @noelekal , has a classic manner about him that reminds me of the great ballads of the west.
His words "Small Texas town northwest of Abilene" combined some lyrics from ballads by Marty Robbins and others.

Sorry I was unclear.

Waltesefalcon · Nov 30, 2022

Canuck
My 1902, 18-size, 19-jewel Elgin B W Raymond I contend, is as spectacular as equivalent models from the other
U S A watchmakers.

Perhaps I just haven't taken apart enough nice Elgins. I only own one B.W. Raymond pocket watch and it is from the 50s. I will also contend that post war watches are not as nicely finished as pre war watches. Maybe I should start looking for a high grade pre-war Elgin.

mcemeren · Dec 1, 2022

After so many high grade movements, this could be a bit joke but it is Mickey 😀

Canuck · Dec 1, 2022

Waltesefalcon
Perhaps I just haven't taken apart enough nice Elgins. I only own one B.W. Raymond pocket watch and it is from the 50s. I will also contend that post war watches are not as nicely finished as pre war watches. Maybe I should start looking for a high grade pre-war Elgin.

All the U S watch manufacturers followed the trend to plainer, unadorned movements, after about the early 1940s. I’ll show you three movements, all made during the post war era which are like the 1950s B W Raymond you describe.

1st. A Waltham Vanguard circa late 19490s.
2nd. A Hamilton 992B. Circa early 1950s.
3rd. Elgin grade 571, BW Raymond, late 1940.

All these had their jewels friction fit. All have, mono-metallic balance wheels and hairsprings, alloy mainsprings, and an over all a plainer look. No gold jewel settings (with the odd exception), no more damask finish. The dial of the Waltham is melamine, the other two are vitreous enamel, but by the mid 1950s or so, melamine generally had replaced enamel.