Calling all Pocket Watch Buffs

noelekal · Oct 26, 2022

Canuck
Now Mrs. @Fritz would for sure be choked if Maureen O’Hara was the green eyed red head with an Irish accent was the one to appear,

Yes she would!

noelekal · Oct 26, 2022

Alpha
Heading off in the morning for a short holiday and I think i have the time and weather covered 😉

Liking that Elgin under that thick glass crystal.

Canuck · Oct 26, 2022

Alpha
Heading off in the morning for a short holiday and I think i have the time and weather covered 😉

Factors such as time and pressure are best not carried with you being it is supposed to be a vacation!

Alpha · Oct 26, 2022

Canuck
Factors such as time and pressure are best not carried with you being it is supposed to be a vacation!

Just taken as an indication and nothing else 😀

TexOmega · Oct 29, 2022

Hamilton grade 943(unmarked) Model #2
Very small production run(2700)
18s 21j with the "gold pkg"👍
Year 1901with correct handset and upside down "30" at six, correct for early runs
Decorative Champion GF Hunter case
Hamilton ledgers state it was finished on 12-22-1902 and sold to J.W. Forsinger in Chicago 5-18-1903, (a watch inspector 1893-1913).

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

TexOmega
Hamilton grade 943(unmarked) Model #2
Very small production run(2700)
18s 21j
Year 1901with correct handset and upside down "30" at six, correct for early runs
Decorative Champion GF Hunter case
Hamilton ledgers state it was finished on 12-22-1902 and sold to J.W. Forsinger in Chicago 5-18-1903, (a watch inspector 1893-1913).

Outstanding in every way.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/hamilton/121970

The pocketwatchdatabase.com site lists railroad approved watches as railroad grade. Many railroad grade watches were not railroad approved. That is, the railroad grade watch may have almost every feature that a railroad approved watch required. But it may have lacked a feature necessary for it to be railroad approved. By the time the subject watch was produced, the open faced railroad watch was gaining in popularity. But hunter cased ones were still in use.

noelekal · Oct 29, 2022

Very nice TexOmega!

All those Hamilton 18S movements from the 17-jewel to the 23-jewel versions have a very attractive appearance, both the lettering and the decoration.

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

How railroad standard watch rules changed. This is a picture of my 21-jewel Hamilton 941 (very similar to the subject Hamilton 943). My grade 941 is from 11 years after @TexOmega ’s grade 943. The 943 was produced in 1902 when railroad standards accepted hunter cased watches. By the time my grade 941 was produced (1913), it was not considered railroad grade.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/hamilton/696010

If you compare the pocketwatchdatabase.com information on the grade 941 (mine), and the 943 (@TexOmega ’s), they are very similar, feature for feature. Yet the grade numbers differ. I wonder what the difference between the two might be.

My grade 941 was produced after standards changed as to how a railroad standard movement had to be marked. You might notice that the grade 943 is simply marked adjusted, while the grade 941 is marked adjusted to 5 positions. The grade 943 and the grade 941 both had the motor barrel feature. Yet only the grade 941 is marked as having that feature.

TexOmega · Oct 29, 2022

Same type of "updated" requirements for the "grade"......at some point, the grade had to be stamped to conform to the rules and their agents in the field(jewelers, etc) could send the plate back to Hamilton for the "stamp of approval", so to speak, then sell it on to a RRer at a discount compared to buying "New".

"Trade in's for New" were a big sell feature as it is now.

noelekal · Oct 29, 2022

I suppose that Hamilton changed the decoration scheme on the plates depending on the jewel count of the movements?

A 21-jewel 940 is on hand here and displays the same pattern as the 941 and 943; almost as if a bias ply tire rolled across the middle of the movement, leaving a track. The effect looks quite rakish and Art Nouveau. I like it.

The 17-jewel 18S movements featured different decoration as did the 23-jewel models.

Wasn't there an uncommonly seen 19-jewel movement n the large 18S size as well?

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

The Hamilton 944 18-size, had 19-jewels. This is a picture of my private label Hamilton 944. My Shugart, Engel, and Gilbert reference tells me that the 944 was the only 18-size, 19-jewel model produced by Hamilton. It isn’t considered to be particularly rare, but compared to a 940 grade, it might be considered scarce. Mine is a private label for D R Dingwall of Winnipeg, Manitoba, who was a major jeweller, watch merchant, and railroad watch inspector that was bought out by Henry Birks & Sons, Jewellers.

The damask finish pattern on the 944 shares some similarities with the 941 and 943, but there are differences, as well.

noelekal
I suppose that Hamilton changed the decoration scheme on the plates depending on the jewel count of the movements?

A 21-jewel 940 is on hand here and displays the same pattern as the 941 and 943; almost as if a bias ply tire rolled across the middle of the movement, leaving a track. The effect looks quite rakish and Art Nouveau. I like it.

The 17-jewel 18S movements featured different decoration as did the 23-jewel models.

Wasn't there an uncommonly seen 19-jewel movement n the large 18S size as well?

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/hamilton/479017

noelekal · Oct 29, 2022

The "netting" motif on the movement is pretty.

Can you pull a 17 and a 23 jewel out of your bag of tricks Canuck?

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

noelekal
The "netting" motif on the movement is pretty.

Can you pull a 17 and a 23 jewel out of your bag of yricks Canuck?

I have a Hamilton grade 927 which has 17-jewels. The damask finish is plain, by comparison. I have a picture of a Hamilton grade 946 which has 23-jewels. It it is not my watch. The decoration on the 946 is spectacular!

noelekal · Oct 29, 2022

Hah! The 946 on the wicker chair seat looks familiar.

The 17-jewel could be said to be plain, but is still lovely.

The movements' beauty is difficult to capture in a photograph.

TexOmega · Oct 29, 2022

noelekal
Very nice TexOmega!

All those Hamilton 18S movements from the 17-jewel to the 23-jewel versions have a very attractive appearance, both the lettering and the decoration.

Remember this era(1865-19xx) was hip deep in the Victorian era and WASPism(in the US) with the fundamentalists still dictating public mores in many things especially dress. Public shows of attention-getting, especially color for men, was not acceptable in polite society(the vast middle class).

So, PW's could be one area of excitement that could be "private" even in public. Also why cases were all flowery and very artfully presented.

Same for Cowboy boots, the tops were a way to express oneself and bring a bit of color to a pretty dreary 2-3 month cattle drive through a very beigey-gray desert landscape......west Texas-Oklahoma-Kansas. Same for bandana's.

If one looks at bookmakers catalogues from back in the day(and it still applies now) one sees the artful designs and the buyer could choose the colors in the design plus the color of all the top stitching. The stitching was really there to hold the top of the boot "up" but soon became an vehicle for adding more color, and then, more rows of stitching.

And if you were middle-class townsfolk, the same applied, had to keep it private or be the subject of talk at the sewing bee for being too ostentatious.

Ever wondered how the Soiled Doves came to be called Painted Ladies? Yep, they dared to have color and stick out in public.

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

noelekal
Hah! The 946 on the wicker chair seat looks familiar.

The 17-jewel could be said to be plain, but is still lovely.

The movements' beauty is difficult to capture in a photograph.

That 946 popped up on the M B a while back, and I copied it to my photo files. So you likely have seen it. As to the “beauty” of the 927? Try as you might to end up with a spectacular picture of the 927, that one just doesn’t win any beauty contests!

noelekal · Oct 29, 2022

" ... the M B ..." ?

I did see it. I took the photo on one of our wicker chairs. I acquired the watch early this year off of Ebay.

Canuck · Oct 29, 2022

noelekal
" ... the M B ..." ?

I did see it. I took the photo on one of our wicker chairs. I acquired the watch early this year off of Ebay.

The 946 is a grail watch, for me. I should be so lucky! I repaired a Ball grade 999, 18-size, 23-jewel Hamilton, a number of years ago. Of that one, there were only 100 produced, all in 1911.

Fritz · Oct 30, 2022

The watch you dig out when you are taking the Packard out for a spin in the country.

or maybe your AMC Eagle

Canuck · Oct 30, 2022

Up until the spring of 2022, I owned a 1978 AMC Concord, which was the forerunner to the Eagle which came along in the early 1980s. I don’t recall ever wearing a pocket watch when out on a jaunt with the Concord. But I get your drift. There is a watch associated with Packard, however. It is not an Illinois, but a Hamilton. The “Ask the Man Who Owns One” Packard 12-size as in the image. The dial has the image of a Packard radiator, and the famous phrase, as above.

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