Cal. 321 with odd behavior…

Posts
6,781
Likes
21,918
Its timekeeping is accurate, but stopped running after a full wind in less than 24 hours. And, when I went to wind it again, it was only a few turns until full wind again. Any ideas what could be causing this? Thanks.
 
Posts
1,998
Likes
4,030
Hi Bob!
When was the last time it got a service?

Erhhhm....no pictures?
😉
 
Posts
6,781
Likes
21,918
Hi Bob!
When was the last time it got a service?

Erhhhm....no pictures?
😉
Supposedly, three years ago this April, had a full service. Pics to follow…
 
Posts
1,998
Likes
4,030
Something might have been broken, do you have the same watchmaker that did the service?
He should check it out.
 
Posts
27,884
Likes
70,944
Supposedly, three years ago this April, had a full service. Pics to follow…
Supposedly? Reading between the lines, if this claim was on the word of a seller, you probably have your answer as to how accurate/truthful that was.

Mainspring is fine since it still comes to a full wind, so it's likely just due for service.
 
Posts
176
Likes
464
Its timekeeping is accurate, but stopped running after a full wind in less than 24 hours. And, when I went to wind it again, it was only a few turns until full wind again. Any ideas what could be causing this? Thanks.
is it really the fullwind in both situations - so that there is the stop ?

i ask for that reason:

1. fullwind and than the watch works untill 50% from powerreserve is down

2. than only a few turns for building up 50%

perhabs the mainspring is broken and the slip through from the spring feels like
reaching the fullwind-stop

a broken spring can built up tension in the springhouse by winding - even for 24 hours

it depends on wich place it is broken
 
Posts
6,781
Likes
21,918
is it really the fullwind in both situations - so that there is the stop ?

i ask for that reason:

1. fullwind and than the watch works untill 50% from powerreserve is down

2. than only a few turns for building up 50%

perhabs the mainspring is broken and the slip through from the spring feels like
reaching the fullwind-stop

a broken spring can built up tension in the springhouse by winding - even for 24 hours

it depends on wich place it is broken

I’m running it again today to re-check. To recap, I wound it fully to an end-stop. The amount of turns seemed typical. It stopped in less than 24 hours. I went to wind it again, took about 3-4 turns to hit a full stop again.

It seems like the mainspring didn’t unwind fully. But is that typically a mainspring issue, or friction and lack of lubrication elsewhere?
 
Posts
176
Likes
464
if the mainspring is broken there is no end stop - at some point there is
the "slip through" and you would have noticed that, because you tested
it a second time

i am questionad

i am no watchmaker, but had a lot of different problems with movements
over the last > 40 years
 
Posts
27,884
Likes
70,944
It seems like the mainspring didn’t unwind fully. But is that typically a mainspring issue, or friction and lack of lubrication elsewhere?
Not really a mainspring issue, at least it would be very unusual for that to be the cause. Watches stop when there's more friction than torque to overcome it, so it could be gummed up oils, some form of debris in the wheel train, etc.

It's a common thing for people to encounter an old watch and they try to wind it, and it won't wind. This is often diagnosed as the watch being "over wound" but in reality it's just so gummed up and dirty that even with full mainspring power it just won't tick. Your is sort of the same situation, but it ran for a few winds before it stopped, meaning that there's very little to wind up.
 
Posts
6,781
Likes
21,918
Not really a mainspring issue, at least it would be very unusual for that to be the cause. Watches stop when there's more friction than torque to overcome it, so it could be gummed up oils, some form of debris in the wheel train, etc.

It's a common thing for people to encounter an old watch and they try to wind it, and it won't wind. This is often diagnosed as the watch being "over wound" but in reality it's just so gummed up and dirty that even with full mainspring power it just won't tick. Your is sort of the same situation, but it ran for a few winds before it stopped, meaning that there's very little to wind up.
Thanks, really helpful. But now I’m in a bind.

I checked the watch again. The rate and bear error are within spec, the amplitude in three positions run in the 230’s. It’s 30 winds now from a dead stop (usual for same caliber seems to be in the 40’s…if that means anything). Power reserve at 30 hours.

Purchased from an established dealer, said to have been fully serviced three years ago, by their “vintage” watchmaker.

To my layperson eye, this obviously wasn’t serviced properly. But, given that it’s running well enough to be reasonably accurate if wound every day, and that the person who did the service is questionably competent, would you send it back under their warranty, or just live with it and use it occasionally? Thanks.
Edited:
 
Posts
1,998
Likes
4,030
Thanks, really helpful. But now I’m in a bind.

I checked the watch again. The rate and bear error are within spec, the amplitude in three positions run in the 230’s. It’s 30 winds now from a dead stop (usual for same caliber seems to be in the 40’s…if that means anything). Power reserve at 30 hours.

Purchased from an established dealer, said to have been fully serviced three years ago, by their “vintage” watchmaker.

To my layperson eye, this obviously wasn’t serviced properly. But, given that it’s running well enough to be reasonably accurate if wound every day, and that the person who did the service is questionably competent, would you send it back under their warranty, or just live with it and use it occasionally? Thanks.
Bob, does the dealer live close to you?
So that you could drive/walk to him and have a chat?
Since you wrote that they have a warranty, I myself would have it fixed.
But if you have to deal with the shipping part etc...maybe I would think twice?
 
Posts
6,781
Likes
21,918
Bob, does the dealer live close to you?
So that you could drive/walk to him and have a chat?
Since you wrote that they have a warranty, I myself would have it fixed.
But if you have to deal with the shipping part etc...maybe I would think twice?
No, they’re fairly accessible.

The issue for me is risk vs reward. In other words: given that it wasn’t done properly the first time, and would have to go back to the same person, and is not terrible for occasional use, is it worth the possible improvement vs the possibility of mucking it up further?
 
Posts
1,998
Likes
4,030
No, they’re fairly accessible.

The issue for me is risk vs reward. In other words: given that it wasn’t done properly the first time, and would have to go back to the same person, and is not terrible for occasional use, is it worth the possible improvement vs the possibility of mucking it up further?
Hmmmm...point taken!
The watchmaker - does he have a good reputation/skilled with 321 movements?
The problem here (I think) is that you are thinking and maybe a bit disturbed about the fault with the watch, and it will not go away,
and you might have more problems in the future?
 
Posts
5,282
Likes
18,335
Have you played with the chronograph? Any difference with the chronograph running? Did the watch get jarred/ dropped?

I've been in a similar situation with a watchmaker. My opinion for what it's worth is to give your watchmaker a chance to look at it. Shit happens. See if he/she has an explanation after examining it. It's possible that some parts are excessively worn and were on their last leg three years ago. Maybe the previous owner didn't want to pay for what was needed. Lots of scenarios besides a bad watchmaker.

But you get two strikes, not three.