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  1. MellyVinelli Feb 22, 2013

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    I do realize that it may be getting difficult to source parts for the c.321 movement.

    But I'm wondering if it is universal across the board or just for certain parts.

    In particular I am wondering if the chronograph module goes kaput is it just impossible to fix?

    Edit: I have a 145.012 and although the chronograph works and runs, the reset isn't really doing anything. I'm quite concerned at this point.
     
  2. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Feb 22, 2013

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    I think certain parts like stem and mainspring are easy to source but others like the correct hammer spring is near impossible to find. Across the board though many parts are difficult to source that's why I've been slowly accumulating 321 movement parts.
     
  3. MellyVinelli Feb 22, 2013

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    Ok I'm going to be completely honest.

    I was scanning the FS section and spotted a 105.003 - 64 by a first time poster 'Oupa' from Ireland and I don't know what to think of the asking price of 3000 euros. The listing says that the chrono doesn't reset so that kind of concerns me as something that may not be fixable without sourcing parts.

    However, I'm not sure the dial is correct for '64?? I'm still new identifying vintage speedies so please forgive me if I'm wrong.
     
  4. CanberraOmega Rabbitohs and Whisky Supporter Feb 23, 2013

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    We have a member here, archer, who is an expert on chrono repairs. Ask him.
     
  5. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 23, 2013

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    Most parts for the Cal. 321 are discontinued, and no longer available from Omega. The only exceptions are those parts that have carried through to be used in other calibres, like the 861 and 1861. Here's one example - this is the hour recorder runner for a Cal. 321, and it's the same part on the 861 and 1861, so these are readily available from Omega, and I replace these fairly often (say 3 in the last year):

    [​IMG]

    As you can see the one with the dot on it on the left has wear on the heart shaped cam. Likely due to excessive resetting for hour recorder creep (jus my theory), and the cam has worn over time. This wear can make the hour recorder resetting very erratic.

    For parts that are no longer available through Omega, you have to rely on old stock at various watch material suppliers. These are places that supply parts and tools to the watchmakers, such as Jules Borel, Otto Frei, and of course there are places here in Canada I use also. These are parts that were distributed to these companies back in the good old days, before most companies went to direct distribution to watchmakers, and started restricting access to parts. So they would sell in bulk to these middle-man companies, and they would sell to the watchmakers.

    Here's the issue in general - the more likely a part is to break, the less likely it is available, as things that commonly break tend to have their supply used up pretty well. Also, generally speaking the longer you wait to repair something, the less likely the part is going to be available. So what parts are available changes from day to day as people buy up what these places have. Also, if people have discontinued parts for sale, they generally know that and charge accordingly.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers, Al
     
  6. MellyVinelli Feb 23, 2013

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    Wow, so eventually all our c.321's will be nothing more than museum displays?

    So my guess is Al, you have quite a collection of parts collected over the years to fix a c.321 then? If so, you can probably bet to hear from me soon!
     
  7. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Feb 23, 2013

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    The thing of it is there is an issue as to whom omega will sell these parts but there is the larger and more important issue as to how much of which parts does omega still have. I have noticed the situation has worsened considerably over the past 3-4 years. 3 years ago, a number of parts for the 320/321 are shipped upon receipt of the order at either OFrei/Jules Borel. About 1-2 years ago, some of these same parts are placed on back order and shipped after a wait of 6-8 weeks. Now some of those parts that I recently ordered have been back ordered for several months with little hope of being fulfilled. I am personally not taking any chances and am planning to stock up on even commonly available parts today like crystals and pushers and crowns in addition to the various harder to find parts. Ditto parts for similar hard to locate for movements like the 33.3 chronograph and the TDMP movement. I've also accumulated many manual wind, bumper and full rotor movements to use as parts donors should the need arise.
     
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  8. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 23, 2013

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    Actually no not really. I stock some commonly used parts for watches (mainsprings, seals, common wear items), but mostly buy what I need as I need it.

    If you take care of the watch it will last a very long time. If you have read any of my posts about frequency of servicing over at WUS, you will know the only area I really feel strongly about regular service is where the watch is vintage and has many discontinued parts inside.

    Cheers, Al
     
  9. Dash1 Feb 26, 2013

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    I think I'm correct in saying that Omega Bienne hold many 321 parts in stock, but you have to send the watch to them for a service/repair and pay the consequently high price for the priveledge.
    Do any of you guys know if the 321 balance is available still, or is it the same as the 861?
     
  10. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 26, 2013

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    I don't think anyone but Omega knows really what they have left of these parts, or if they are making them as they go along or something. The balance is not available (from Omega at least), and not the same as on an 861.

    BTW prepare for a very long wait in addition to that high price....

    Cheers, Al
     
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  11. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Feb 26, 2013

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    Yes the balance is hard to find - had 2 NOS ones and already had to use one to restore a 321 with a fouled up balance. The last one I am holding on to for future use. The 321 hammer hour spring is another hard to find part - the ones listed on ebay and the parts houses as interchangeable between the 321 and 861 is the wrong part for the 321. Again I previously had 4 of them and now down to 2 which I plan to keep. I also have other hard to find parts (not for sale sorry!) like a few correct vintage speedmaster professional 321 dials, a few dot over 90 bezels, and others. Can't hurt to stock up - you never know when you will need them!
     
  12. adam78 Adam @ ΩF Staff Member Feb 26, 2013

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    I have two cal. 321 chronos (not Speedies), and fortunately both work flawlessly, but I don't think I want to tempt fate and buy another...
     
  13. Privateday7 quotes Miss Universe Feb 26, 2013

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    I can not understand why Omega did not produce parts for cal 321 anymore, considering they know exactly how people really highly value those caliber.
    Probably that's not make business sense for their modern high scale operation, but can't they outsource it to some specialized parts maker in Swiss?
     
  14. MellyVinelli Feb 26, 2013

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    Makes business sense in that they can have casual watch customers buy new watches like 1861 or 1863 or 8500 or 9300 etc. but for collectors like us it would cost an arm and a leg to have it serviced by swatch. Then comes the intangibles of owning an out of production legend and precursor to the modern movement. It drives up the price and prestige of vintage speedies and bolsters the Omega brand.
     
  15. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 26, 2013

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    Simple - because they want you to buy new watches. And if you want to keep your old watch running, they will hold back parts like they do now with the 321 and insist that they do the work, and charge you a huge amount for it.

    As time goes by, I expect this issue will spread to more calibres (already happening with 470 based calibres). When I was at Omega in NJ last year, the instructor had a copy of an AWCI magazine (watchmaker association in the US) on his desk, and the cover shot was of a winding wheel for a Cal. 550 series. There was an article inside on how to repair a damaged one, and when another emplyee came in they joked about how the focus was on these old parts for old calibres. The conversation then turned to spare parts, and both the Omega employees said they should just stop making parts for these. Now it was just a conversation between 2 employess as we were all working away on our co-axial watches at the time, but still hearing this I piped up and said these are very popular movements, and I repair a lot of these, so cutting off production of parts would really not be good. They reiterated that selling more watches is the primary goal of the company, not keeping these old watches running.

    I know people love the watches and maybe the company, but like with any big corporation profits and value for the shareholders is the #1 goal, not keeping old vintage watches running....

    Cheers, Al
     
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  16. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Feb 26, 2013

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    Yes, there will come a day in the not too distant future that omega will go the way of rolex and severely restrict parts supplies for older watches to try and force you to send the watches to a swatch service center for servicing and repair (at a high cost of course). As I've said, I have been preparing for this day for some time now - have 2 tackle boxes that are already now filled with watch parts for vintage omegas. For all the servicing I have done I pretty much supply the parts that need replacing to my watchmaker and 1 of the ones I use regularly has a whole box of vintage omega parts from me for him to use as needed.
     
  17. Kringkily Omega Collector / Hunter Feb 26, 2013

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    Yes certain models are much harder to service. I have one such watch in repair and now creeping up to almost 9 months.... I know that some brands like Patek will actually recreate parts that are not available any longer but that is really expensive.
     
  18. Mathlar Feb 26, 2013

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    That ties in Patek's marketing angle about buying their watches as heirlooms though. They aim to pitch at a far higher price point than Swatch/Rolex, and sell lower volume as a result, and they will also be able to command even more ridiculous service price tags to cover the cost of recreating those parts.

     
  19. BASE1000 Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Feb 26, 2013

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    Omega does also remanufacture new parts for the 321 but they do no more deliver them to free watchmakers and even not to Omega centers outside Bienne. At least here in Germany any cal 321 being delivered in is going straight to Bienne for service At the price of around 1.000 SFR +VAT
     
  20. g-boac Feb 26, 2013

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    The problem I have with that is this: if I am going to spend thousands - or more - I will be motivated to do that if I feel I am making an investment in durable and serviceable good. If instead, buying a watch that I really love becomes nothing more than purchasing a depreciating asset that will in a few short years become unserviceable, I frankly will be inclined to save my money or spend it elsewhere.

    As for allowing Omega to do the work: I wouldn't in principle have a problem with it, but I had one warranty job done by them and my experience was HORRIBLE. Not only do the people I dealt with in New Jersey not have a clue about the watch, they couldn't give me insight into the repair process itself. When sending in a watch for service, you're required to sign a document saying that you (closely paraphrasing) "acknowledge that certain components such as crown, case, and pushers may be replaced with functional equivalents which may differ cosmetically", and that you agree up front to this stipulation.

    I'd feel exceptionally nervous sending a vintage piece to them for service with parts that could not be recreated. I mean, how would you feel if you asked them to service the movement but not to perform cosmetic restoration, and you received back your intact CK2998 with a replaced crown, pushers, new bezel, new hands, new dial, and the original parts were either destroyed, or returned in a bag and unserviceable from removal damage?

    On the flip side - if I comfortably knew that my watch is built for life, I'd be encouraged not only to buy vintage pieces, but also invest in new ones.

    So those are some of my concerns with Omega restricting parts and service for older watches. Are these shared by others, and does anybody have any Omega Bienne Speedmaster service stories? Can anybody share their experiences with sending in a 321 for service, and how it turned out?

    cheers,
    Mark