Instagram is my current drug of choice in airport lounges - I am especially enjoying the calling out of fake Tiffany dials etc. One thing has struck me is the market for blank Rolex papers. These are selling for lots of money - I am wondering what they are used for? If they are being filled in - which frankly is the only explanation for the prices they sell for - then to me that is fraud. Therefore what responsibility does the seller have? They might not have a responsibility but certainly I think that if a person sells a blank paper knowing that it will be fraudulently filled in to create a fake full set, then I do not feel aligned to his moral compass. How do we feel about the sale of blank papers?
There's no legitimate reason to sell, or buy blank papers - if you're selling, or buying, you are engaging in fraudulent activities, and frankly should be hung up by your testicles, over the city gates, for all to see. Not that I feel strongly about this or anything.
They're absolutely not for sale here that's for sure, modern or vintage. There is no reason whatsoever for anyone legitimate to be buying blank papers.
Years back, a well known collector was caught after he purchased a vintage piece w/no accessories, he listed for sale shortly thereafter as a full set (w/punched papers). Yes, there is a lot of fraud and available punchers out there doing just that.. It is also interesting to see new handwritten ink on some of these as well..
So what is the difference between buying a card from eBay and ordering one from a boutique? https://omegaforums.net/threads/replacement-omega-card-set-ad-boutique.33641/
A boutique will sell you replacement cards for a watch you have in hand - they will only do it for watches produced after 2001 (or that was the case last year when I asked and bought a set for a watch that was missing cards), they are tracked in their service system as re-issued, with the date voided - Switzerland also has to give approval for the re-issue, and it took 8 weeks. So no matter what a seller may fill in, Omega have record that they reissued cards - so they're not "blank cards". Blank documents for a vintage watch, are I think a very different matter - you're building a fake history for a watch, down to where is was sold, and when... when you have no idea. Vs. cards issued by the manufacturer, for a modern watch, that they know are replacements because they issued them.
One would assume the papers from the OB are modern, not vintage. Even if they offer it for a vintage watch (not sure they do), they would clearly be modern replacements and add little value. Edit: the bloody lizard beat me to it!
Omega may have records of cards being reissued. The problem is a potential buyer will not know this. What I'm really trying to ask is why people think it is ok to have Omega replace cards on a modern watch, but it's not ok for vintage? Don't buy that watch it has service papers, along the same lines as service dial.
What you get with Omega issued modern cards: Pictogram card - tells you which pages in the manual to use Chronometer card - if issued tells you that the movement in the watch passed chronometer certification when new. Warranty card - stamped serial and watch numbers - dates and location of sale voided. Why would you buy this? It proves that the watch is a legitimate Omega, as Omega have to inspect the watch, and Switzerland have to authorise the sale of the cards. It does not show where the watch was originally sold, or when - the warranty card is stamped as VOID in UV ink. What you get with blank modern cards from eBay: Pictogram card - tells you which pages in the manual to use Chronometer card - unless you hand over your movement number so that it can be stamped into the fake cards... nothing. Warranty card - the opportunity to hand write in whatever you like and falsify where the watch came from. Why would you buy this? You might want a used pictogram to replace a lost one... for the other two items, you're attempting to make a false history for a watch, or ring a stolen one. What you get with blank vintage cards from eBay: An opportunity to make up a false history, and commit fraud - oh that purchase date, and jeweller address... just pop those in. Some very different scenarios there - only one of which isn't fraud.
Just to hammer this home a little further, replacement boutique cards are not "blank cards", which is the question that @Spacefruit brought up.
Damn the Lizard is on fire! Or I'm just super slow on tiping today haha. Anyways, +1 on what @tyrantlizardrex is saying.
The Omega world equivalent is selling Speedmaster bridges with serials to match..things. Whoever does that knows what he is doing and for what purpose the papers or parts are used.
So would adding a bracelet to a strap watch constitute "fraud"? Having someone change a dial is almost universally considered fraud, but is oftentimes encouraged here on the forums. Same with hands and bezels. What is the difference between adding a bezel to a watch that is missing one, or adding papers to make a complete set? Are papers that filled out at the time of purchase, but added to a different watch also fraud? I am very much the devils advocate here.
Depends what the intent is, and the level of disclosure. I can't see a legitimate reason for swapping serial numbered elements, or creating them. The exceptions being modern cards as I mentioned above or swapped service rotors on the 1040 cal... where they're supposed to be prefixed with an R if replaced. Other parts that could be legitimately be swapped at service, slide into the grey. Building a vintage watch up, and then representing it as all original, that's fraud.
I hope you are not serious about that...the difference between restoration and preparation is quite clear. Adding self written papers or altering a serial on a movement is for what purpose? Own joy of the newly added authenticity?
I absolutely do not condone the filling-in of original blank Omega papers and I wouldn't ever do it, but I'm curious to know what posters think should be done with such papers. Destroy them?
I am absolutely serious. The difference between restoration and preparation is not clear. At what point does the restoration become a fraud? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
People buy period correct watches all the time.. Unless buying from original owner, you will not know what was swapped..... .
