Back again for more advice: Omega Seamaster stops overnight--after multiple trips to Swatch

[rms6]

All: How to I elevate an issue with Omega to address a problem with my Seamaster that persists despite repeated maintenance services by Swatch?

After full manual winding my Seamaster (Cal. 1120) stops overnight after 3-5 days of normal wear, a problem that appeared after a routine maintenance service several years ago. I raised this issue on this forum in December 2022 and received good advice (#post-2093397). The watch has gone back to Swatch twice since then, and the problem persists. Each time, the service center (in Florida) stated that they did a full maintenance service and that the watch now meets factory specifications. After the first maintenance service of this cycle I received the self-winding weight and numerous other parts, so it appears that the technicians tried to fix the self-winding performance, but the watch stopped after an even shorter interval of normal wear.

Each time, I have raised my concerns through the official Omega website. I invariably receive a quick reply expressing concern, giving me instructions for sending the watch to a repair facility, and promising that the problem will be resolved. I could do this again, but feel that I'm stuck in a Do-Loop. How can I break through to get a more effective diagnosis and repair?

The watch has now been sent back to Omega a total 5-6 times for this problem since the last normal maintenance (which I paid for), with no further charges to me. Frankly, I would be willing to pay for repair service that actually fixes my watch, but my requests just seem to trigger the same ineffective response each time.

Thanks for tolerating my rant and for any advice you might provide.

 

[Evitzee]

It could quite possibly be that your daily activity isn't sufficient to keep the watch wound, hence its stopping after 3-5 days. I don't know how old you are but activity can slow down a bit as a person ages. One test you could perform is to fully wind the watch and put it on a winder at the specified number of turns per day and see if it keeps running for a week or two. If it does than you know the mechanism is working but your activity isn't high enough in day to day life to keep it wound.

 

[rms6]

Evitzee

It could quite possibly be that your daily activity isn't sufficient to keep the watch wound, hence its stopping after 3-5 days. I don't know how old you are but activity can slow down a bit as a person ages. One test you could perform is to fully wind the watch and put it on a winder at the specified number of turns per day and see if it keeps running for a week or two. If it does than you know the mechanism is working but your activity isn't high enough in day to day life to keep it wound.

Evitezee: I'm 72 and am aware of the possibility of insufficient daily activity. However, I woodwork and cook daily, both of which involve lots of hand and arm movement. I've also taken to shaking the arm with the watch on it to the point that it has almost become a nervous tick. I'll try the winder test--I just found a reasonably priced one on Amazon. Thanks

Edited: Aug 4, 2023

 

[Aroxx]

It does sound like you move around enough to keep it wound. I'm curious how long it runs for if you fully manually wind it up and then let it sit and run down.

 

[rms6]

Aroxx

It does sound like you move around enough to keep it wound. I'm curious how long it runs for if you fully manually wind it up and then let it sit and run down.

I've done several reserve power tests. The watch will run 40-45 hours after being fully wound manually. Thanks for asking. It is a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Donn Chambers]

I also think you should try placing it on a winder and see if that keeps it wound longer than the 3-4 days. If it does, then I would suggest putting it on the winder at night in order to keep it wound.

 

[piwatches]

Evitzee

It could quite possibly be that your daily activity isn't sufficient to keep the watch wound, hence its stopping after 3-5 days. I don't know how old you are but activity can slow down a bit as a person ages. One test you could perform is to fully wind the watch and put it on a winder at the specified number of turns per day and see if it keeps running for a week or two. If it does than you know the mechanism is working but your activity isn't high enough in day to day life to keep it wound.

 

[eternalover]

like many on the forum, I have had this cal for about 20 years in daily use and in fact almost never wound it, and never a full wind. it has only had two services ( one after flinging it on a hard floor accidentally) and has been incredibly accurate. I have heard somewhere to avoid manual winding this caliber sorry if that was on the earlier post.

 

[Donn Chambers]

eternalover

like many on the forum, I have had this cal for about 20 years in daily use and in fact almost never wound it, and never a full wind. it has only had two services ( one after flinging it on a hard floor accidentally) and has been incredibly accurate. I have heard somewhere to avoid manual winding this caliber sorry if that was on the earlier post.

Never heard anything about one should avoid winding this particular caliber. And I don’t see why anyone should fear doing so. Some think winding an automatic watch will “wear it out faster” or destroy the crown by unscrewing it and screwing it down multiple times, but this is NOT a delicate piece of art that will break by just looking at it! The mechanism was designed to be wound and the crown was designed to be able to be screwed/unscrewed multiple times.

 

[piwatches]

I would wind it up all the way. Should be about 15 to 20 winds. See how that works. I was a member of swatch but only ordered ETA movements for my watches. I would see if Ofei can order you a new winder from Omega. The rotors have a tendency to slump when worn and do not wind properly. Winding should not be a problem.

 

[Dan S]

I think that @Evitzee's auto-winder idea is a good controlled experiment to diagnose the problem at a high level. If it runs indefinitely on the auto-winder, then you know that the problem is with your daily activity, and you can just add a quick manual wind every couple of days. If it stops on the winder, then you can confirm that the auto-winding mechanism is not performing well. You can even tweak the winder to control the number of daily revolutions, to see if the watch is performing properly.

 

[eternalover]

I found the thread on watchuseek- appreciate it is mostly about another movement, but does mention 2892: Regarding the malfunctions produced by manual winding of 2824 movement i can confirm that by my experience they can occur in the form of wear on the barrel bridge and also mainplate, but this is mostly an error of a watchmaker than design fault. As if properly lubed this parts wear will be small,the problem arises when watchmaker does faulty oiling or not oiling of these parts (archer had a great post on his blog regarding this fault).

However this fault is not a problem of 2892 as it has completely different winding design, but still it is not perfect also and has some small "issues" also he 2824/2892's manual winding problem is from the design of the reversing wheel(s). The ETA reversing wheel design is quite tricky and the performance highly depends on the paw's surface condition. If too much manual winding involved, the reversing wheel may not function properly, meaning: either manual wind or auto wind will not drive barrel properly. Newly ETA instruction requires all reversing wheel to be surface conditioned and oiled at ETA facility.

But this too much is not a day or two, even not a year or two. I had 2824, 2892 manually wound twice a day for more than a year without developing any problem. ETA's paw wheel reliability is relative poor in comparison to Seiko's m

 

[Archer]

eternalover

Newly ETA instruction requires all reversing wheel to be surface conditioned and oiled at ETA facility.

I haven't looked at what ETA says, but Omega Work Instruction 40 details rules for lubrication, and that document calls for lubricating the reversing wheels in the field using Lubeta V105...



The reversing wheels shouldn't be reused - they should be replaced at every service.

People on forums go on about these wheels and their supposed flaws all the time, but in my experience if you follow the proper procedures, they rarely fail prematurely. Most of the problems that arise are from people not getting their watches serviced before damage occurs, watchmakers using the wheels over again to save a few dollars, and not using the proper lubricants. If the wheels are worn, dirty, magnetized, or not lubricated properly, they will malfunction.

 

[eternalover]

I bow to those who actuallly understand these things which I am just beginning to learn about. I just vaguely remembered reading something which chimed with me as I wore that seamaster almost everyry day for 15 years or so and never wound it once. I am embarrassed to admit I didnt know it manual wound for quite a while and it was such a smooth wind that I couldnt believe it was actually winding anything!

 

[rkny18]

Just wondering out loud, is it possible that every time you’ve sent it back to the repair center in Florida, it’s been repaired by the same person, who is perhaps overlooking the same issue each time?

I might consider calling the Omega boutique in New York City and asking if you can send it to them.