Avoiding NY sales tax and UK VAT on purchase

Tony C. · Oct 20, 2020

STANDY
It is a serious offence carrying a possible prison sentence of 7 years.

That is sobering, but...did you see the patina? 🙄

64Wing · Oct 20, 2020

Anyone smell a narc?

jaguar11 · Oct 20, 2020

Pay up and smile.....

kkt · Oct 20, 2020

To the original poster, dude, if you can't afford the taxes you can't afford the watch.

BlackTalon · Oct 20, 2020

tpatta
Don't know about the UK but if you fail to declare when entering the US and are caught I guarantee that on subsequent trips you will have your luggage taken apart as they look for "stuff".

????????? Is this based on fact, or speculation? When entering the US your luggage 'screening' and your passport check are at separate spots... (at least they are at Dulles)

MRC · Oct 20, 2020

john_coburg
Or is there a fly in the ointment...?

I have twice been asked to let a UK Customs official take a close look at my watch. Of course after 10-20 years of daily wear it was clear I'd had it a long time and a quick look was all they needed. They were very quiet airports (Norwich and Cambridge) but even there Customs are on the lookout -- and knowledgeable.

tpatta · Oct 20, 2020

BlackTalon
????????? Is this based on fact, or speculation? When entering the US your luggage 'screening' and your passport check are at separate spots... (at least they are at Dulles)

Yes, they are separate at LAX also. Not speculation, not a "fact", but a "friend" did not declare a significant amount of jewelry from a trip to Europe. It was discovered in a random look at their bags. The last half dozen trips they have been sent to a secondary inspection every time. I think they might put a note in the passport file they look at when they scan your passport upon return to the states.

Enzo · Oct 20, 2020

64Wing
Anyone smell a narc?

I'm getting a faint aroma of fish...but maybe that's just because I am by the harbourside 😉

Archer · Oct 20, 2020

tpatta
Yes, they are separate at LAX also. Not speculation, not a "fact", but a "friend" did not declare a significant amount of jewelry from a trip to Europe. It was discovered in a random look at their bags. The last half dozen trips they have been sent to a secondary inspection every time. I think they might put a note in the passport file they look at when they scan your passport upon return to the states.

Same in Canada. IMO you never have fewer rights and protections as when you are going through customs and immigration (even as a citizen of the country you are entering) so it's not the place to play fast and loose with the truth. It can have long lasting consequences including jail time, large penalties, and being targeted for years after every time you travel.

Marsimaxam · Oct 20, 2020

tpatta
Yes, they are separate at LAX also. Not speculation, not a "fact", but a "friend" did not declare a significant amount of jewelry from a trip to Europe. It was discovered in a random look at their bags. The last half dozen trips they have been sent to a secondary inspection every time. I think they might put a note in the passport file they look at when they scan your passport upon return to the states.

Yes, on our honeymoon in 1988 I purchased my wife a lady's datejust in Switzerland. I wanted to declare the watch upon arrival at Dulles International, our first stop in the USA, my wife, of course, said she'd just wear the watch thru customs. Upon finding the receipt for the watch in my wife's purse, and then the box in her suitcase, we were given a choice, either pay the duty tax and fine or have the watch confiscated. We opted for the first choice. Every time we traveled abroad after that incident for the next 7 years we were red flagged and no matter where we first landed in the USA we were given a complete search of our persons and all our luggage. My wife learned her lesson the hard way.

tpatta · Oct 20, 2020

Archer
Same in Canada. IMO you never have fewer rights and protections as when you are going through customs and immigration (even as a citizen of the country you are entering) so it's not the place to play fast and loose with the truth. It can have long lasting consequences including jail time, large penalties, and being targeted for years after every time you travel.

One last point for US based folks.....If you have Global Entry and bring an item in without declaring it and you are caught, kiss off Global Entry forever.

Archer · Oct 20, 2020

tpatta
One last point for US based folks.....If you have Global Entry and bring an item in without declaring it and you are caught, kiss off Global Entry forever.

Not just for US based people actually! If you have NEXUS as my wife and I do (specific Canada-US trusted traveler system), we also use the Global Entry system in US pre-clearance airports. This also gives you specific lanes to use at land border crossings going both ways, so not something you want to mess with.

MCC · Oct 20, 2020

I suspect that Tax applied in the US is reclaimable on exit as you are not a US resident. Tax to be paid on entry to the UK is non negotiable..

Of course this also applies in reverse for non UK residents meaning that if UK VAT tax @20% is higher than that at an individuals country of residence tax then it can represent a saving.

Foo2rama · Oct 20, 2020

BlackTalon
????????? Is this based on fact, or speculation? When entering the US your luggage 'screening' and your passport check are at separate spots... (at least they are at Dulles)

No your flagged even before you enter and they are waiting for you to hit bag check.

it’s the same way they catch things after being unloaded at X-ray and see who grabs the bag and they stop them.

Evitzee · Oct 20, 2020

I must be lucky, I've never been randomly stopped re-entering the US. One time we were returning from Australia with about 36 bottles of higher end Australian wine not available in the US, packed in foam containers in duffle bags. Rolled up to the Customs guy and told them what we had. He asked if we were dealers. "No, just wine collectors". He asked if it was red or white, type of grape, etc, he fumbled through the very thick customs book for about 30 seconds, shut it, stamped the customs card and said, 'Have a nice day'. These days when you return from a cruise to Florida they don't even have you fill out a customs card and there don't appear to be any customs people around. You get your passport scanned at Immigration and that's it.

I had a sister-in-law who was a customs agent in 90's at JFK airport. They were focused on two things, cash and drugs. She knew I collected watches and she related a story about a co-worker. She was new and diligent, she would scope out the flights from Switzerland and watch for shiny new watches being worn, and pounce, bagging a traveller who had a new Swiss watch. Management finally pulled her aside and told her to stop doing that, it was not cost effective, created too much paperwork, and that wasn't their mission.

Laws are laws, declare your stuff, even if the authorities don't want to deal with it.

Karusel · Oct 20, 2020

I'd rather pay the tax and declare properly.
Customs and USPS really ramped up their effort over the past few years. Not to mention, your goods may get confiscated in addition to whatever fines you may incur.

SpikiSpikester · Oct 20, 2020

Evitzee
Laws are laws, declare your stuff, even if the authorities don't want to deal with it.

Yep.

And do not ever, under any circumstances, mess around with UK VAT authorities. They have powers that make the Police jealous and they absolutely will enforce. They are a big bureaucratic machine focused on enforcement. Always best to declare even small items and an individual agent decides whether to let you off the fees or not.

I've had a couple of occasions where they've just thanked me for declaring and made no charge. But if you try to scam the system... different story altogether.

I know we're only talking small scale in this thread, but here's an anecdote to give you a flavour - one of my old friends did 3 years in open prison for under-declaration of VAT by his in-house accountant. He didn't even know about it. One of his brothers was involved behind his back - he went to prison for even longer. The accountant did a plea deal to flip and everyone else did time. They all had kids, ranging from newborn to teenage. The family business and their reputations were destroyed. I gave character witness evidence at the trial, but it made no difference. The accountant, whose idea it was, and his lawyer wife walked away.

gatorcpa · Oct 20, 2020

As someone with experience with sales tax, I can tell you that there is no way to legally avoid sales tax or use tax (which is when an item that is not taxed in the state of purchase is brought to another state). If you are taking possession of the watch in NY, the AD should charge you NY tax. If they are mailing it to a temporary address in NJ, most NY retailers are also registered in NJ, so they will collect NJ tax and remit, or if they don’t, you have a responsibility to voluntarily remit use tax to NJ authorities.

Some very large AD’s might have the ability to not charge any tax if you ship the watch back home, but of course you will have issues with VAT if you choose that option.

Regarding what happens if you wear the watch on your return to the UK, that’s between you and Her Majesty’s Customs & Excise.
gatorcpa

RonJ · Oct 20, 2020

For some reason, the idea of smuggling a watch through Customs makes me think of the watch story told by Christopher Walken in Pulp Fiction.

Marsimaxam · Oct 21, 2020

RonJ-in-VA
For some reason, the idea of smuggling a watch through Customs makes me think of the watch story told by Christopher Walken in Pulp Fiction.

For the few who may not have seen Pulp Fiction...

"This watch. This watch was on your daddy’s wrist when he was shot down over Hanoi. He was captured, put in a Vietnamese prison camp. He knew if the gooks ever saw the watch it’d be confiscated, taken away. The way your dad looked at it, that watch was your birthright. He’d be damned if any slopes were gonna put their greasy yellow hands on his boy’s birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something. His ass. Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you."