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Aventurine Dial non moonphase Speedy?

  1. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    IMG_4172.JPG
    IMG_4173.JPG

    Ok folks I'm out of my element here. But something smells odd here.

    48m with a factory display back. Bezel looks late for the serial. Seems early for SN on the case too.

    The blue is under the printing on the dial. Is that adventurine? Or is something else going on.

    Lume and hands seem poor for this vintage, with replacement chrono sec.
     
    Edited Oct 18, 2016
  2. lando Oct 18, 2016

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    I have once seen a moonwatch for sale with a damaged (patinated) dial - white specks all over it. This looks similar, but the specks are mostly blue. Looks more like "fungurine" than aventurine to me. ;)

    I can be totally wrong however...
     
  3. sydneywatchguy Oct 18, 2016

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    Looks more like some kind of rot than adventurine
     
  4. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Oct 18, 2016

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    Except for the issues with the dial, I don't see anything out of place for a 3592 or early 3572. The bezel is the same as on my 3572, I don't think that particular bezel was used before the mid 90's .
     
  5. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    48m though?
     
  6. Greatpa Oct 18, 2016

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    Yes, could be from lug to lug.
     
  7. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    No the serial number puts it at 85. That's a 90's caseback, and a non delrin brake....
     
    Edited Oct 18, 2016
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  8. ahartfie The black sheep in the Spee-ee-eee-eedmaster flock Oct 18, 2016

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    Little chunks of smeared lume? Look how it's missing from 3, 4, 7, and 9.
     
  9. Jonatan Oct 18, 2016

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    Whatever it is, I like the blue on it. Reminds me of a beautiful IWC Ingenieur owned by Tony C. The most beautiful watch I have ever seen. The dial is speckled with gold.

    If it's mold, you've got yourself some Penicillium roqueforti on that dial. Maybe it comes from a french cheese maker!
    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillium_roqueforti
     
  10. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Oct 18, 2016

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    Serial numbers for the movements used for the display back models are different from the regular 3570's.
    All 863 and 1863 movements have the metal brake. 3572's certainly weren't around in 85. 2016-06-08 16.59.35.jpg 57
     
  11. rcs914 Oct 18, 2016

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    That's certainly one I'd like to see in person to see if it matches up with the photos. It's incredible looking in the first photo, I wonder what it looks like in the sun? Strange to be sure.
     
  12. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    Hmm this is just gets more wierd...

    So the Bezel and back checks to the serial number for a mid 90's.

    But if I'm not mistaken, I do not see geneve stripes on the movement that should be there. I can kinda see it on the bridge, but nowhere else on the watch as you would expect on a 1861 with a display back and metal brake.

    The price is decent, but I am really thrown off by what is going on here. Is it a franken watch with a oddly patined dial that also messed with the lume and hands of a mid 90's watch, or I hate to say this, a on off of some type.

    Or is everything correct, and someone patinaed the hell out of mid 90's watch.

    Here is another shot of the dial,
    omega-speedmaster-3572.50-1997-hqmilton7806-4.jpg
     
  13. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Oct 18, 2016

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    If you're thinking someone swapped the serial number from an eighties watch onto an earlier movement with the metal brake, how do you explain the eighteen jewels? I think it's a 90's watch with a damaged dial.
     
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  14. tpatta Happily spending my daughter’s inheritance Oct 18, 2016

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    Almost looks like some sort of liquid staining. I can't imagine water leaving marks like that. Perhaps someone was trying to "create" an Aventurine dial. Any idea of the ownership history? How does the seller explain the dial?
     
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  15. Greatpa Oct 18, 2016

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    [​IMG]
    couldn't resist.. :cool:
     
  16. Jonatan Oct 18, 2016

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    With the close up it looks like the spots are wax.
     
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  17. rcs914 Oct 18, 2016

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    The closeup makes it less attractive and more like damage.
     
  18. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    It's being offered by a well known dealer.

    They said "The dial has a blue substance that is spotted evenly across it giving it an interesting appearance. "

    I admit that one spot on the running seconds looks like wax. But it's not on any of the printed part of the watch, and most of the blue is irregular.

    My movement concern is only gen eve stripping on the bridge.
     
  19. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Oct 18, 2016

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    So first this would be a Cal. 863, not an 1861. The stripes are there, but can be difficult to see depending on the angle of the watch. If you blow the photo up you can follow the lines that are going up and to the right.

    The dial is certainly interesting, but do they mention that the watch was flooded at some point? There are a number of screws that are visible that are obviously badly corroded. I would be very cautious of this watch and having to put a lot of money into it if the corrosion problems have not been properly addressed. Considering the condition of some screws, my guess is that they have not been completely rectified, at least not to my satisfaction.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  20. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Oct 18, 2016

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    My assumption was it was flooded for the hand damage and lume damage, I also noticed the screws.

    I'm just baffled by the dial.