Both of them come with the observatory on the back but do not have Constellation or star on the dial. Has anyone seen them before? Are they legitimate?

 

Not an expert on these vintages, but I am pretty sure that Seamaster Chronometers (the second piece) did not have the observatory medallion on the back. And that case looks like it belongs to a Constellation model. I would call the second example a Franken (a Seallation? or maybe a Con-master??). As for the first piece, the dial looks very nice, but I have my doubts about the "Chronometre" printing...font looks lighter and different.
Happy to hear from the real experts here.

 

The case ref 2652 is normally for a Constellation. I have one and it has the same hour markers as this one, but furnishing a star and Constellation, of course.

Lighter because of the lighting angle, perhaps. From another angle, it looks quite right there:

 

The second example must be a Franken. The first one looks much more interesting . . .

 

Hopefully Desmond will chime in on the first one.

Dial looks original to me.

 

It must be a special franken then: a rare Seamaster dial in very good condition with a steel connie case and movement also in very good condition. Ususally there'd be signs of deterioration on at least one of these things.

Also, both of these references, 2648 and 2652, exist in other than Constellation form.

 

In what other forms

 

No name Globemaster.

There's also a possibility the dial on the 2648 (first one) could have come from another reference like the 2517, etc...

 

Well, yes, I know that. That's still a Constellation, just one for the USA market.

P.S. The point being that a Globemaster caseback will still have the observatory, the dial will have a star, and it certainly won't say "Seamaster".

 

It doesn't say Constellation either. On the other hand, there are Speedmasters with Seamaster label on the back.

PS: Speaking of customized market, this seamaster 2652 could have been one for some specific market also.

 

Yeah - the n00b market. It's a franken. Seastellation or Conmaster? I think we like Conmaster since it was such an accurate description.

 

You gotta light up the bat signal: Calling @mondodec!

 

The 2648 is from Uruguay and there's no OXG mark on the balance cock. The 2652 is from Japan and and most likely not stamped with OXG either.

 

So far it looks like the opinions are not totally consensus, especially on the 2648. At the beginning I thought the 2648 could be a franken and the 2652 could be a redial. Thing was, both of them looked pretty good in pictures, lending them a legitimate appearance, but I guessed look could be deceiving so I posted the question. Seems the 2652 is either franken or redial, both are not legit. The 2648 could be good or bad, but it's now gone, not available anymore...

 

Sorry I missed this one.

I think the best explanation is that at some stage an original 2648 dial was replaced with possibly a 14311 dial. I note this listing is from South America, but I know of no reason why a South American Constellation wouldn't have the star, if indeed the watch was shipped there.

As Gator says, "never say never", but the livery and design story of the 2648, while variable, did call for the star and I have never seen a branded Constellation or early Globemaster 2648 without it.

I'm thinking of Latin ingenuity here.

I think the 2652 has simply lost its dial, making it a kind of horological Sybil. Unfortunately multiple personalities are not all that collectible

Cheers

Desmond