Forums Latest Members

Are the Rolex boys muscling in on us?

  1. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    5,189
    Likes
    22,927
    I hear all the buyers for these:
    rolex.jpg

    Now want these:

    17762911.jpg
    (Photos from upcoming Bonhams sale to stimulate the discussion, and because threads are better with photos!)
     
    gemini4 and PatrickJ like this.
  2. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    2,828
    Likes
    4,460
    Good luck to them in finding another one.
     
  3. Davidt Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    10,309
    Likes
    17,874
    If it's true and is simply down to the fact that a number of watch collectors have never seen an early Speedmaster before, suddenly saw one and thought "that is a beautiful watch, if wonder if they're readily available because I must have one", then I think that's great.

    If, on the other hand, the increase in demand/desirability is down to the fact that blogs/articles etc are now saying that these are rare, desireable watches, which may also be a good investment, and as a result people are seeking out Speedmasters because they think they should, rather than because they actually want one, then that's a shame.
     
    lenny, lando, arkstfan and 1 other person like this.
  4. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    Are said Rolex collectors educating themselves about speedies? Do they rely on dealers or auction houses?

    Are there major differences in perspectives and approaches to collecting Daytonas vs Speedies?
     
  5. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    5,189
    Likes
    22,927
    From speaking to some, I think the (perceived) lack of counterfeit parts helps raise interest in Speedmasters....
     
  6. repoman Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    2,247
    Likes
    4,271
    It's funny you should bring this up @Spacefruit. I met a very nice gentlemen last week, a Rolex dealer, and he expressed interest in getting a Speedmaster and wanted my input. On his wrist was this:
    [​IMG]

    It was apparent he was looking at Speedmasters for the first time, definitely interested in early references. I didn't have a chance to ask him what was motivating this interest.
     
  7. Davidt Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    10,309
    Likes
    17,874
    Well I'd say that's a genuine reason. Rolex doesn't interest me, but if there's a serious issue with fake parts, relumed dials etc which is taking the fun out of vintage Rolex, causing collectors to look for other, less (as yet) tampered with makes/models, then fair enough.

    It's a shame for people who have always had their eye on a vintage Speedmaster and had perhaps been saving for their first, only to find the prices now pushed further beyond their reach.

    As above, the one driver I don't like, is if people start hovering up early Speedmasters not because they want one, but because they're told they should want one. Or even worse, they're hoping prices go the way of the Daytona and are simply looking to make a buck.
     
    LawBrk and gophishin like this.
  8. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    2,828
    Likes
    4,460
    Are you sure there aren't just as many fake parts and relumed dials on vintage speedmasters?
    I'm sure there are but hopefully the Rolex collectors that haven't done the homework will leave the good ones for us.
     
    Davidt likes this.
  9. Davidt Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    10,309
    Likes
    17,874
    I don't think so. A few DoN bezels have looked dodgy recently, there's some obviously relumed dials and a few "are they, aren't they", but I don't think its to the extent seen on vintage subs etc.

    Vintage Rolex prices mean it's worthwhile for some sellers to highly prep a watch. Until recently, not many Speedmasters were "worth it" and a lot of people weren't able to identify those that were.

    Looks like that's changing and it will bring with it the very problems currently faced by Rolex collectors.

    Crap.
     
  10. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    2,828
    Likes
    4,460
    I'd better order my MWO now then.
     
  11. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    Better yet, buy up ALL the copies so the Rolex guys can't get 'em. ;)

    Interesting times, especially for someone like me who hasn't been at this very long.

    Is there an upside? (other than higher selling prices for folks that have them already)
     
  12. gophishin Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    492
    Likes
    1,058
    This is what has me personally concerned, but overall I would say this seems to be a very common discussion across a lot of other great (60's especially) tool watch manufacturers. I've seen the same topic discussed in regards to Heuers, UG, Enicar, etc.

    I think it can be a variety or combination of factors depending on that person's particular situation, but it seems the common themes are:
    Rolex prices rising so much people are looking elsewhere (and subsequently driving up prices of Speedys, Heuer Carreras and Autavias, UG chronos, etc.)

    Rolex is the most well known brand to the general public, I think a lot getting into watches set "getting a Rolex" as their goal or the apex, say that leads them down the vintage path... deep rabbit hole later, they find that hey, there were a lot of other great watches from this era, and some even had the exact same parts!
    This point ties in with another: that information is so much more readily available, that you can find more info on lesser known brands or brands that didn't pump out the sheer volume of each ref like Rolex. Social media, forums, websites make it easy to discover new vintage watches and find info on them.

    I also do think the fact that Rolex is more of a mine-field than say Omega, turns some people off as well. Sure, we see a few "prepared" watches, but usually in the same spots, and we see some with re-lumed, replaced, etc., but many seem less intentional, and perhaps more easily identified. With so many more watches in circulation, and such a hot market, the incentive and availability of parts to "prepare" a watch, or make counterfeit parts in the vintage Rolex world is bound to be more prevalent.
     
  13. abrod520 Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    11,216
    Likes
    35,253
    I think it's just a general mania for late '50s - early '70s sports watches. These are all-time classic designs, that are starting to see their day in the sun again as modern watch brands look to their heritage to come up with new watches. All of a sudden we have reissues of watches nobody'd thought about for a long time - and even resurgent brands wholesale. Rolex has been played out for a while, and now collectors and enthusiasts are starting to open their eyes to other high-quality watches from the day. A few years ago, it was all about which watch the celebrity/athlete wore (Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, Jo Siffert, Jim Clark etc) but now it's more about the classic aesthetic I think.
    For instance, this is the first decent Siffert Autavia to hit the bay in a long, long time: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171999494807Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
    It's got 12hrs to go and hasn't yet even reached the low end of the range these sold for just 1yr ago... Whereas almost any screw-back '60s Autavia has quadrupled in price!
     
    Gatsby and boat2dan like this.
  14. Rman Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    2,408
    Likes
    9,485
    If the Omega craze goes the way of Rolex, we will soon be seeing high profile dealers pedaling 4 or 5 lollipops and a handful of 165.024's in minty condition and we'll all wonder--- where the hell did all of these come from all of a sudden? That's the way I look at Rolex now---with a raised eyebrow. Market forces.
     
  15. michaelmc Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    380
    Likes
    286
    I'm an early GMT Rolex guy from way back and attend the WWT, IWJG, NAWCC shows plus smaller venues throughout the year. I have noticed many of the bigger dealers are now asking if I want to sell my Omega's, Heuer"s, Gallet's, even Bulova Chrono's that I used to buy for almost nothing comparable to Rolex. I think the push is on for any clean chrono or larger (36mm up) vintage time piece.
     
  16. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    16,311
    Likes
    44,710
    As said before after the speedie auction someone will have to change every price on their website.
    ( didn't mention site in case Rolex guy are reading);)
     
    oddboy likes this.
  17. Canuck Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    13,373
    Likes
    37,519
    There's still a demand for Daytonas. I just sold mine.

    image.jpeg
     
    Gatsby likes this.
  18. UncleBuck understands the decision making hierarchy Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    3,417
    Likes
    7,734
    I think the hipsters are looking for something new, or as my hometown boy Yogi said, "Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded".
    Everybody is aware of Rolex (and justifiably so, no disrespect intended) and they are looking for the next cool thing.
    We have Bond, the Olympics, Anna, Rory, the moon.........Who is cooler than us?


    If Speedmasters soon command Daytona prices, GTG's will be on yachts instead of at pubs!

    Why am I collecting prewar instead of Speedies?
     
  19. Joe K. Curious about this text thingy below his avatar Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    1,647
    Likes
    2,099
    If the Rolex guys continue pushing the market upwards, I'll have to turn to a more affordable brand......
    Here is my future WTT ad:

    This:
    [​IMG]

    For this + cash (if using Paypal add 4%)

    [​IMG]

    Lets say I am not holding my breath...


    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Nov 24, 2015
  20. gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed et alia Nov 24, 2015

    Posts
    5,855
    Likes
    16,579
    Only the white gold PP? Surely you meant the platinum version.
     
    Bienne2998 likes this.