Archives Extract Question

twasko7175 · May 10, 2022

When someone orders a extract of the archives, is the entry in the Bracelet field an indication of the original bracelet which came on the watch or the one that is pictured in the images one sends in?

I ask because I ordered an extract for my December 1973 serial 145.022-71 Speedmaster Professional which I believe would have come with a 1171 bracelet stock. The picture I sent in had the watch on a Forstner flat link which is what the watch came with when I bought it used.

The archives extract indicated the reference number for the OEM flat link bracelet (1039 I think). The question is if Omega saw the Forstner bracelet and thought it was a 1039, or did my watch originally come with a 1039?

thanks

Dan S · May 10, 2022

This is a very controversial topic, but I will just give you my personal thoughts. I think that the answers to questions like this are mired in mystery, unfortunately. While I would like to believe that all of the information one receives in an extract actually comes from the archives, numerous well-documented incidents have shaken my faith in the process. It's clear that sometimes the extracts are influenced by photos and perhaps other external factors. It's interesting that the bracelet field was actually filled in. Frankly, I wonder how often the archives even includes that information for a watch like yours.

twasko7175 · May 10, 2022

Dan S
This is a very controversial topic, but I will just give you my personal thoughts. I think that the answers to questions like this are mired in mystery, unfortunately. While I would like to believe that all of the information one receives in an extract actually comes from the archives, numerous well-documented incidents have shaken my faith in the process. It's clear that sometimes the extracts are influenced by photos and perhaps other external factors. It's interesting that the bracelet field was actually filled in. Frankly, I wonder how often the archives even includes that information for a watch like yours.

I agree it's unlikely the would have the bracelet information (who keeps that detailed records back then?), based on my research the 1039 was phased out by December 1973 so its highly likely the watch didn't come with one.

gatorcpa · May 10, 2022

For larger watch companies, Longines has the best archive by far. They have full information on almost all watches cased by them in Switzerland. They can also answer questions about specific details, like “is this dial solid gold?” But Longines can’t tell you much about watches where only the movements were exported and things like cases, bands, buckles and bracelets were fitted by the importer. This is especially true in the USA.

Omega’s records have a lot of holes, particularly when is comes to USA only models. IMO, Omega extracts are only worth the money to verify whether a particular movement is correct for a case reference on expensive vintage watches, like a Speedmaster.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

Dan S · May 10, 2022

T twasko7175
I agree it's unlikely the would have the bracelet information (who keeps that detailed records back then?), based on my research the 1039 was phased out by December 1973 so its highly likely the watch didn't come with one.

In some markets, I believe that bracelets were sometimes added by the dealer. Where was your watch delivered?

twasko7175 · May 10, 2022

Dan S
In some markets, I believe that bracelets were sometimes added by the dealer. Where was your watch delivered?

USA. See snapshot of archives below

Dash1 · May 11, 2022

From my own experience of ordering dozens of extracts over the years (and seeing the archives first hand,) the bracelet field is often blank but is occasionally filled so I believe yours does represent information given in the archive. I have certainly had some returned with bracelet detail that was not given in the application.

davidswiss · May 11, 2022

Whatever the situation with the archive, the fact that the watch is over 50 years old means the bracelet could have been changed for any number of reasons. It may have snapped, stretched, been temporarily swopped for a strap or just changed for the latest thing the owner fancied means that the likely hood of the watch having the strap it left the factory with will be reduced.

Davidt · May 11, 2022

Extract aside, I believe the -71 was at something of a crossroads for bracelets. It could have come with 1039, 1175 or 1171, so the 1039 is entirely plausible.

twasko7175 · May 11, 2022

davidswiss
Whatever the situation with the archive, the fact that the watch is over 50 years old means the bracelet could have been changed for any number of reasons. It may have snapped, stretched, been temporarily swopped for a strap or just changed for the latest thing the owner fancied means that the likely hood of the watch having the strap it left the factory with will be reduced.

Understood, I am trying to determine if my watch came with a 1039 or if the archive extract indicated what kind of bracelet was on it now

Davidt
Extract aside, I believe the -71 was at something of a crossroads for bracelets. It could have come with 1039, 1175 or 1171, so the 1039 is entirely plausible.

Interesting. I had read somewhere that production of the 1039 ended in late 71 or early 72 which is ~2 years before my speedmaster was delivered.

Archer · May 11, 2022

T twasko7175
Understood, I am trying to determine if my watch came with a 1039 or if the archive extract indicated what kind of bracelet was on it now

Interesting. I had read somewhere that production of the 1039 ended in late 71 or early 72 which is ~2 years before my speedmaster was delivered.

I just received an archive extract back for a customer that I'm servicing the watch for. It's a 145022-71 delivered in December of 1972 (to the US). The extract states that it came on a 1039/516. The photos sent with the extract request were head only, so no bracelet was shown.

This tells me that they do have records of what bracelets went on these watches. So it's very possible that they used records for yours, rather than the photo. But again this illustrates the "challenges" Omega has created by asking for photos...a true extract from the archives would not require a photo, just a serial number...

twasko7175 · May 11, 2022

Archer
I just received an archive extract back for a customer that I'm servicing the watch for. It's a 145022-71 delivered in December of 1972 (to the US). The extract states that it came on a 1039/516. The photos sent with the extract request were head only, so no bracelet was shown.

This tells me that they do have records of what bracelets went on these watches. So it's very possible that they used records for yours, rather than the photo. But again this illustrates the "challenges" Omega has created by asking for photos...a true extract from the archives would not require a photo, just a serial number...

thanks for sharing! That is really interesting.

I guess I should have kept onto the Forstner flat link and not purchased a service 1171 bracelet if I wanted to be true to the original watch.

I see that most reproduction flat links come either fully brushed or half polished. What was the finish on the 1039 bracelets back in the day? Has anyone transplanted an Omega 1039 clasp onto a Forstner or Uncle Seiko bracelet?

Archives Extract Question

twasko7175

Dan S

twasko7175

gatorcpa

Dan S

twasko7175

Dash1

davidswiss

Davidt

twasko7175

Archer

twasko7175

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