Anyone know Paddymoran here? He won't refund my money.

aristoweb · Feb 20, 2025

Anyone know Paddymoran here?

He won't refund my money.

A few months ago I posted an ad for help identifying a vintage Omega.

This person wrote to me privately saying that he had just what I needed.

After a few days we reached an agreement for the sale of one of his bracelets for about 500 eur.

He asked me to send the money as a "friend" on Paypal.

But he immediately returned the money to me on Paypal saying that he only accepted money via Paypal "friends" or as a bank transfer.

I trusted him and sent him the money.

He sent me a cheap shipment and the package got lost and was never delivered to me and I have the tracking number.

Now after arount 2 months I still haven't received the bracelet that I paid for with my sacrifices and this person has not refunded me anything saying that he made a complaint to his Irish postal service.

I replied to him saying that it is not my responsibility for the loss of the package and he must reimburse me or send a new bracelet and I should not be forced to wait for his postal service to reimburse him and then he reimburses me.

It is useless to write him messages and emails because he pretends nothing happened and says that nothing matters and that he does not have time.

I want to ask for help from you passionate friends and I also want to say to be careful when you buy something on the internet without a protected payment.

Mark020 · Feb 20, 2025

Did you get a DM saying that you should Paddy at some weird looking email adress?

aristoweb · Feb 20, 2025

Mark020
Did you get a DM saying that you should Paddy at some weird looking email adress?

Niente di tutto questo.

Mi ha scritto Paddy direttamente dal suo account qui su Omega Forum e io ho inviato il trasferimento bancario direttamente al suo account bancario intestato a lui, ho controllato prima.

aristoweb · Feb 20, 2025

He opened a postal complaint with Poste Irlanda and gave me the complaint number.

I contacted Poste Irlanda and indeed this complaint is apart.

However, in my opinion he should not wait for Poste Irlanda to reimburse him and then he reimburses me but he should directly take responsibility for the failure to arrive to me of the shipment and reimburse me directly.

This is why I do not recommend paying with a bank transfer as I did unfortunately.

aristoweb · Feb 20, 2025

A aristoweb
Niente di tutto questo.

Mi ha scritto Paddy direttamente dal suo account qui su Omega Forum e io ho inviato il trasferimento bancario direttamente al suo account bancario intestato a lui, ho controllato prima.

Sorry I wrote in italian!

Correct reply :

None of this.

Paddy wrote me directly from his account here on Omega Forum and I sent the bank transfer directly to his bank account in his name, I checked first.

dsio · Feb 20, 2025

So we’ve seen this and been forwarded screenshots of the PMs, it appears in this case that the package has indeed been shipped and is legitimately delayed in the mail somewhere at this stage.

That isn’t a case of fraud on the part of the seller and there are times packages do just arrive late, I’ve had a Speedmaster take 3 months after an unplanned detour through China.

It is on the seller to ensure it arrives, currently it’s not confirmed to be lost as there is an investigation open and that may still recover the item.

I’d suggest some patience in the mean time until an answer from the postal services is reached.

aristoweb · Feb 20, 2025

dsio
So we’ve seen this and been forwarded screenshots of the PMs, it appears in this case that the package has indeed been shipped and is legitimately delayed in the mail somewhere at this stage.

That isn’t a case of fraud on the part of the seller and there are times packages do just arrive late, I’ve had a Speedmaster take 3 months after an unplanned detour through China.

It is on the seller to ensure it arrives, currently it’s not confirmed to be lost as there is an investigation open and that may still recover the item.

I’d suggest some patience in the mean time until an answer from the postal services is reached.

No, it's not true.

The loss was confirmed by Poste Italiane and Poste Irishe and I have the screenshots.

When a package doesn't reach the recipient, the responsible party is still the sender.

However, in this case, the sender doesn't want to reimburse the recipient but wants to wait for the Irish postal service to reimburse him and then he will reimburse me.

This is wrong because I cannot be involved in the problems of a package declared lost and never reached me.

In this case, I cannot defend myself quickly because I paid by bank transfer as the seller insisted several times that he wanted to receive the money.

He seemed very good but now he is ignoring me.

Yet I am preparing a complaint to the local police and a request for reimbursement because this is currently a case of embezzlement.

Given my experience, I do not advise anyone to purchase as I did.

dsio · Feb 20, 2025

A aristoweb
No, it's not true.

The loss was confirmed by Poste Italiane and Poste Irishe and I have the screenshots.

When a package doesn't reach the recipient, the responsible party is still the sender.

However, in this case, the sender doesn't want to reimburse the recipient but wants to wait for the Irish postal service to reimburse him and then he will reimburse me.

This is wrong because I cannot be involved in the problems of a package declared lost and never reached me.

In this case, I cannot defend myself quickly because I paid by bank transfer as the seller insisted several times that he wanted to receive the money.

He seemed very good but now he is ignoring me.

Yet I am preparing a complaint to the local police and a request for reimbursement because this is currently a case of embezzlement.

Given my experience, I do not advise anyone to purchase as I did.

Can you provide the screenshots from the postal service where the investigation is closed and the package is confirmed lost as I was under the impression it was still being looked into

Oku · Feb 20, 2025

A aristoweb
When a package doesn't reach the recipient, the responsible party is still the sender.

This is a common misunderstanding.
It depends on the laws of the countries that are involved. In Germany for example, a private seller is only responsible for the package to be brought safely to the logistics service. If it gets lost afterwards, he is only obliged to make the claim.

Dan S · Feb 20, 2025

Sometimes a package can be "lost in transit" for a long time but when an insurance claim is found, they are able to track it down eventually. It can be very slow. I would suggest being patient. The seller probably doesn't want to reimburse you because most likely the package will eventually arrive, and then you will have the package and the money. It can be reasonable to wait until the shipper officially determines that the package is lost.

I think that the two of you should try to come to an agreement about how to handle the contingencies.

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

dsio
Can you provide the screenshots from the postal service where the investigation is closed and the package is confirmed lost as I was under the impression it was still being looked into

I have no problem sending any information I have on this and thank you for your kind attention.

The tracking of the shipment is "RL037328616IE".

You can track this shipment on the Italian Post Office website
https://www.poste.it/cerca/index.html#/risultati-spedizioni/RL037328616IE

The shipment has been in delivery since January 20, 2025 or a month ago.

So I contacted the Italian Post Office with ticket number "8013891358" and received a response on January 21, 2025 and they declared the loss as you can see from the screenshot here.

The text is in Italian and I provide the translation:

ITALIAN

"Gentile Cliente,

con riferimento alla Sua segnalazione relativa all’invio n RL037328616IE Le comunichiamo quanto segue.
Dalle verifiche svolte è emerso che la spedizione risulta smarrita.
Spiacenti per il disagio patito, evidenziamo che, ai sensi dell’art. 22 comma 9 della vigente Convenzione postale universale, adottata dall’Unione Postale Universale (UPU), l’indennizzo spetta al mittente della spedizione, previa formalizzazione del reclamo presso l’operatore estero di origine.
Il mittente, tuttavia, può rinunciare all’indennizzo in Suo favore, consentendone così la corresponsione diretta da parte di Poste Italiane. Pertanto, La invitiamo a sollecitare il mittente affinché formalizzi il reclamo, con espressa rinuncia all’indennizzo in Suo favore, presso l’operatore estero di origine. Sarà cura di quest’ultimo far pervenire a Poste Italiane S.p.A. la necessaria documentazione.
"

ENGLISH

"
Dear Customer,

With reference to your report regarding shipment no. RL037328616IE, we inform you of the following.
From the checks carried out, it has emerged that the shipment is lost.
We apologize for the inconvenience suffered, but we would like to point out that, pursuant to art. 22 paragraph 9 of the current Universal Postal Convention, adopted by the Universal Postal Union (UPU), compensation is due to the sender of the shipment, following formalization of the complaint with the foreign operator of origin.
The sender, however, can waive the compensation in your favor, thus allowing it to be paid directly by Poste Italiane. Therefore, we invite you to urge the sender to formalize the complaint, with express waiver of compensation in your favor, with the foreign operator of origin. It will be the latter's responsibility to send the necessary documentation to Poste Italiane S.p.A.
"
The package was lost then.

I immediately contacted Patrick Moran and I said several times that the package was lost and the post office proposed a refund but you have to approve this refund.

He has not yet sent me any refund even though the package was officially declared lost.

The seller should have taken responsibility if what he sent did not arrive at its destination and should have refunded the buyer without waiting for his dispute with the postal service and waiting for them to refund him.

This is what happened to me and I fear it could happen to anyone who does not use a protected payment service (paypal, credit card).

I have all the conversations with the buyer of course.

The amount paid is not small and also the anxiety of wanting to receive what I ordered has increased the stress.

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

Oku
This is a common misunderstanding.
It depends on the laws of the countries that are involved. In Germany for example, a private seller is only responsible for the package to be brought safely to the logistics service. If it gets lost afterwards, he is only obliged to make the claim.

The sender must ensure that his package arrives at its destination and that the person who paid receives it.

If the buyer does not receive it, the seller must refund and not the postal service.

That is why in my case, in my opinion, the seller did not accept payment with paypal and sent me back the money.

Because he did not want to take responsibility in case of loss and wash his hands of it, leaving the buyer to wait for the item and compensation and struggle to get justice.

Everyone should draw their own conclusions if they buy like me.

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

Dan S
Sometimes a package can be "lost in transit" for a long time but when an insurance claim is found, they are able to track it down eventually. It can be very slow. I would suggest being patient. The seller probably doesn't want to reimburse you because most likely the package will eventually arrive, and then you will have the package and the money. It can be reasonable to wait until the shipper officially determines that the package is lost.

I think that the two of you should try to come to an agreement about how to handle the contingencies.

Yes I know and thansk a lot Dan for your comment.

It has already been officially declared lost by Poste Italiane and the seller knows it.

Now he is responding very slowly and without giving me any solution.

Instead before I bought he was so fast.

I think I will soon get to a complaint both through the European Ombudsman and by sending a complaint to the local Irish authorities.

Not only do I want a refund but I also want to have a clear solution that I can explain to anyone who finds themselves in this bad situation of mine.

YY77 · Feb 21, 2025

A aristoweb
I think I will soon get to a complaint both through the European Ombudsman

I doubt a dispute on a private transaction will be part of his/her job description.

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

YY77
I doubt a dispute on a private transaction will be part of his/her job description.

It may not be accepted by the European authority.

In that case I will send a private request through my lawyer with an invitation to appear locally in Italy.

In any case I will be assisted by my sister, a lawyer.

hansaboy · Feb 21, 2025

Maybe you should take this dispute somewhere else (not on OF)?
And return here when everything is solved?

Google-isch:
Forse dovresti portare questa disputa da qualche altra parte (non su OF)?
E tornare qui quando tutto sarà risolto?

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

hansaboy
Maybe you should take this dispute somewhere else (not on OF)?
And return here when everything is solved?

Google-isch:
Forse dovresti portare questa disputa da qualche altra parte (non su OF)?
E tornare qui quando tutto sarà risolto?

I have shared my experience here hoping to be of help since the person who sold me the item is a person from the forum.

I will update you if there is relevant information.

NT931 · Feb 21, 2025

Dan S
Sometimes a package can be "lost in transit" for a long time but when an insurance claim is found, they are able to track it down eventually. It can be very slow. I would suggest being patient. The seller probably doesn't want to reimburse you because most likely the package will eventually arrive, and then you will have the package and the money. It can be reasonable to wait until the shipper officially determines that the package is lost.

I think that the two of you should try to come to an agreement about how to handle the contingencies.

Dan has a good point. It's been 6 weeks since the delivery journey started in early Jan, and while it is listed as "lost" for now, it sometimes can be found again.

True story: A friend of mine foolishly bought a Lange 1 and got it sent via registered post (yes, I know!) to my country.

Imagine his consternation when it never arrived, and was listed as lost. The last time it was successfully tracked was after it arrived in my country. He was still figuring out what to do when 4.5 mths after the delivery, it suddenly appeared on his doorstep, with the Lange 1 intact. It turns out it had been left in a forgotten corner of the post office and belatedly found; no one told him, and it went thru the last leg of delivery as if nothing untoward had happened.

Needless to say, he was very relieved...

Clelow · Feb 21, 2025

I, too, have experienced significant delay with international shipments with the items suddenly appearing after long delay and nearly forgotten. It is a shame that this sort of thing happens, but I hope you end up with the bracelet.

It appears there is another solution as contained in the response from the Italian Post Office: "The sender, however, can waive the compensation in your favor, thus allowing it to be paid directly by Poste Italiane." In essence, You could ask the seller to assign the claim to you and proceed to prosecute the claim on your own thereby maintain control of the refund process. It is not as good as good of a solution as getting the refund upfront from the seller, but at least you will be in control and know exactly where things stand. I can appreciate your position but perhaps you unknowingly assumed risk of loss when you agreed to send payment via F&F.

aristoweb · Feb 21, 2025

NT931
Dan has a good point. It's been 6 weeks since the delivery journey started in early Jan, and while it is listed as "lost" for now, it sometimes can be found again.

True story: A friend of mine foolishly bought a Lange 1 and got it sent via registered post (yes, I know!) to my country.

Imagine his consternation when it never arrived, and was listed as lost. The last time it was successfully tracked was after it arrived in my country. He was still figuring out what to do when 4.5 mths after the delivery, it suddenly appeared on his doorstep, with the Lange 1 intact. It turns out it had been left in a forgotten corner of the post office and belatedly found; no one told him, and it went thru the last leg of delivery as if nothing untoward had happened.

Needless to say, he was very relieved...

I understand that sometimes something like this can happen.

But the best option is to refund the buyer in these cases and it is the one that is fairest to those who paid and did not see anything arrive at home.

If time then makes the lost package found then it will be up to the buyer to send the money back to the seller.

But the buyer should not take on the problems with the shipment.

On the other hand the buyer has only paid and has not done anything else and therefore is not responsible for anything.