Any added value to a French Made Connie Case ?

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

Hi Guys !

I am currently checking an 18kt Pie Pan 1688.3005 Connie (so Dog Legs) having a case reputedly made by Paul Frank & Fils in France ;
it's a 168.3005 dating back 1964.

Movement seems in excellent state of conservation, goldmarks seem fully legit, with a double goldmark at the bottom of the Observatory on the Medallion (also in stunning conservation).
Also it seems confirmed that Paul Frank & Fils (located near Paris) were official case makers for Omega in the '60s :
so this seems clear.
Then the question is : as foreign made cases are obviously less, is this giving an added value as compared with swiss made case models ?
Thanks to you OFM for your comments back !

cristos71 · Mar 11, 2023

National production cases as a general rule have less value to the collector.

However there are collectors who value these well designed, well produced and heavy French gold cases on, or as good as on, a par with their Swiss equivalents.

cristos71 · Mar 11, 2023

These three are all French and are IMO as good as the Swiss cases

Peemacgee · Mar 11, 2023

@cristos71 is quite right.

I was going to say, the short answer is no and in fact generally have a reduced value as they are not ‘original’ Omega production pieces.

However, like their English counterparts, French cases are at least as heavy as the Swiss originals and are of excellent quality.

Locally produced cases often have slight variances to the Swiss cases.

If you have a pic of the medallion, one easy tell is the over-sized stars on the English and French versions.

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

I quite agree that the stars over the Observatory are over-sized on this example : I have requested some better pics of both the dial and the medallion ; should follow within short.
The only "hick-up" is a scratch on the dial, just over the "Constellation" script : 🙁
probably a tool scratch I am trying to evaluate - IMO the only "problem" on this watch, which is in great state despite this, so really a storm in my brain whether I should go ahead on this watch or not...

dsio · Mar 11, 2023

While no premium the French do beautiful work indeed. Some of the South Americans are on the opposite end of that scale though but it’s a mixed bag down there.

Peemacgee · Mar 11, 2023

That’s quite a big ‘hiccup’.
And is there something going on around the star?

It’s a nice enough watch but not ‘in great state’ as all of the lugs appear to have lost their facets - which is not uncommon on a gold watch.

So, due to the damage on the face and condition of the lugs, desirability will very much depend on price.

cristos71 · Mar 11, 2023

It's a pass from me. Dial damage too great and soft lugs

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

Yeah... I would agree... a sum of too many negative things : the scratch over the script, a true eye catcher unfortunately, the star around which there seem to be some black spots (corrosion ?), and yes, the lugs edges are no longer sharp enough, when comparing them with other solid 18kt models. Too bad ! I really love the french case and its Medallion.

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

The seller just sent me some pics of another one not on sale yet :

IMO it seems OK , though it has no date 😀() and medallion, though in good condition as far as I can judge it, is not "as nice" as a "Fat French" one. What do you guys think of that ? BTW : also solid gold, but 14kt but not 18kt, so way cheaper, but overall probably in a better state of conservation.

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

Sorry but the pics came a bit distorted, so I resized them quickly, but roundness is not 100%... sorry for that, but on another hand, pics are good enough to zoom them.
Here it's about a "regular" 167.005/6 dated 1963.

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

Can you guys evaluate whether the black index inserts are in black ceramic or Onyx ? I've been told that there are 3 versions, depending on the finishing level of the Connies : Black paint - Black ceramic inserts - Black Onyx inserts;
are black Onyx inserts only dedicated to full 18kt models, eg DeLuxe or Grand Luxe i.e. with gold dials ? Or could it be that also the solid gold models have been fitted with Onyx inserts ???

cristos71 · Mar 11, 2023

Black ceramic inserts...never heard of that before. AFAIK onyx or paint.

Peemacgee · Mar 11, 2023

RoadRunner73
Can you guys evaluate whether the black index inserts are in black ceramic or Onyx ? I've been told that there are 3 versions, depending on the finishing level of the Connies : Black paint - Black ceramic inserts - Black Onyx inserts;
are black Onyx inserts only dedicated to full 18kt models, eg DeLuxe or Grand Luxe i.e. with gold dials ? Or could it be that also the solid gold models have been fitted with Onyx inserts ???

Where did you get the info regarding ceramic inserts?

Onyx inserts were used on ALL Constellations ( that have black inserts) up to a point in time in the latter part of the 60s when they were replaced with black paint.

It’s fairly easy to tell them apart - onyx inserts have a ridge and have an obvious depth, whereas black paint is flat and has relatively no depth.

The exception to this rule is deluxe (gold) dials, whose onyx inserts are flat and wider but still have depth and later 60s styles like the C cases which have a different style of indices.

hoipolloi · Mar 11, 2023

RoadRunner73
The seller just sent me some pics of another one not on sale yet :

IMO it seems OK , though it has no date 😀() and medallion, though in good condition as far as I can judge it, is not "as nice" as a "Fat French" one. What do you guys think of that ? BTW : also solid gold, but 14kt but not 18kt, so way cheaper, but overall probably in a better state of conservation.

The dial is spotty and cannot be cleaned. You better wait for a perfect one. It will take time and money but worth it.
Here is my 14k Swiss case.

SWmania · Mar 11, 2023

hoipolloi
The dial is spotty and cannot be cleaned. You better wait for a perfect one. It will take time and money but worth it.
Here is my 14k Swiss case.

That watch paired with the mesh.. just drool-worthy.

Sorry I just had to stop by and say that, couldn't help it😟.

also, agree with the comment that it it better to wait.
the three golden rules again, patience, patience, patience!
or was it condition, condition, condition?

RoadRunner73 · Mar 11, 2023

Peemacgee
Where did you get the info regarding ceramic inserts?

Onyx inserts were used on ALL Constellations ( that have black inserts) up to a point in time in the latter part of the 60s when they were replaced with black paint.

It’s fairly easy to tell them apart - onyx inserts have a ridge and have an obvious depth, whereas black paint is flat and has relatively no depth.

The exception to this rule is deluxe (gold) dials, whose onyx inserts are flat and wider but still have depth and later 60s styles like the C cases which have a different style of indices.

Well this is exactly the point ; when I asked a seller to confirm whether the black inserts (so having a ridge and an obvious depth) were made of onyx, he replied exactly what I have mentioned to you earlier here that except for the painted ones which are easy to identify (no ridge, and no visible depth) there was a two options : ceramic inserts on the less exclusive dials, and onyx on the premium models, and he pretended that his did not have onyx inserts, but ceramics : so I have taken it for granted, as I can see no reason why he would "lower" the quality of his dial's watch.
Having said that, it's the first time I heard about these "ceramic inserts", but again, I'm by far not an expert, and better double-check this here.