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An unexplained phenomenon! Watch gains 4 minutes a day but only when on the watch winder

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I think I have a very unique situation here. An unexplained phenomenon!
My Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra 231.20.39.21.02.002, works precisely when worn on wrist or just laying on the desk for two days (after fully winded). In two days, it gained less than two seconds. And when I measure it on a timegrapher, it shows +0.5s/day.
But when I put it on my Wolf Heritage collection 2.1 watch winder along with my other Omega watches, it gains about 4 minutes a day!
I am puzzled. Do any of you have any idea what could cause this?
thanks
 
JimInOz
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A AvanGrid
................ And when I measure it on a timegrapher, it shows +0.5s/day..............

Does your Timegrapher have a coaxial setting?
 
Archer
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Is it fully wound when you put it on the winder? If so, let it run down at least 12 hours before putting it on, and see if the behaviour continues, or if it keeps time.
 
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Archer Archer
Is it fully wound when you put it on the winder? If so, let it run down at least 12 hours before putting it on, and see if the behaviour continues, or if it keeps time.
Thanks for your reply.
I thought about it too. No, it was not fully winded; it was sitting on my desk for about 36 hours.
 
cuonglm
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I have a watch winder with no TPD setup. If I put my Spectre in, let it runs for 1.5 days, I saw it gain 1 minute.

If I let it runs for ~6 hours, mean ~720 TPD like Omega watch winder guide, it keeps running very accurately.

I haven’t tested the NTTD, but I wear these 2 watches interleaving, and they keep running accurately if I keep the other with 720 TPD in watch winder.
 
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cuonglm cuonglm
I have a watch winder with no TPD setup. If I put my Spectre in, let it runs for 1.5 days, I saw it gain 1 minute.

If I let it runs for ~6 hours, mean ~720 TPD like Omega watch winder guide, it keeps running very accurately.

I haven’t tested the NTTD, but I wear these 2 watches interleaving, and they keep running accurately if I keep the other with 720 TPD in watch winder.
Wolf doesn't have TPD setup. It is set to 900.
But mine was set to bi-directional which doubles the TPD. I set it to clockwise now. Let's see if it is going to have an effect.
 
cuonglm
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Wolf doesn't have TPD setup. It is set to 900.
But mine was set to bi-directional which doubles the TPD. I set it to clockwise now. Let's see if it is going to have an effect.

Why it doubles the TPD?

Mine also does not have TPD, and would run nearly ~2000 TPD. I normally let it runs for ~6 hours only.

I also set it to bi-direction mode, it runs clockwise for 2 minutes, sleep for 6 minutes, then run counter-clockwise for 2 minutes, sleep for 6 minutes and repeat.
 
Donn Chambers
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Wolf doesn't have TPD setup. It is set to 900.
But mine was set to bi-directional which doubles the TPD. I set it to clockwise now. Let's see if it is going to have an effect.

If you feel like you need a watchwinder, you really should get one that allows you to adjust the TPD. I have a slightly upgraded version of the Wolf winder you have and it DOES allow adjustment. I occasionally put my Co-Axial Seamaster on it (CCW, 450 TPD) and have never noticed any major timing issues.
 
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cuonglm cuonglm
Why it doubles the TPD?

Mine also does not have TPD, and would run nearly ~2000 TPD. I normally let it runs for ~6 hours only.

I also set it to bi-direction mode, it runs clockwise for 2 minutes, sleep for 6 minutes, then run counter-clockwise for 2 minutes, sleep for 6 minutes and repeat.
"Double the amount of TPD by selecting bi-directional" That's what it says on their website:
https://www.wolf1834.com/heritage-6pc-winder#93=203
 
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Donn Chambers Donn Chambers
If you feel like you need a watchwinder, you really should get one that allows you to adjust the TPD. I have a slightly upgraded version of the Wolf winder you have and it DOES allow adjustment. I occasionally put my Co-Axial Seamaster on it (CCW, 450 TPD) and have never noticed any major timing issues.
The strange thing is, none of my other three Omega (all self-winding but not Master Co-Axial just Co-Axial) watches don't have any problem with being on the watch winder. The same setting, 900 TPD both directions. They are consistently off by -5s/day, +3s/day, and +7s/day whether they are worn or on the watch winder.
This watch however is more precise (~+0.5s/day off) when worn or left on a desk but goes crazy on the watch winder.
 
Archer
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Based on everything you have posted,I suspect that the watch is rebanking, which is due to excess balance amplitude. This causes a very fast rate. Omega would be able to confirm this.
 
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Archer Archer
Based on everything you have posted,I suspect that the watch is rebanking, which is due to excess balance amplitude. This causes a very fast rate. Omega would be able to confirm this.
Thank you for the reply. Do you have a theory why it doesn’t happen when the watch is worn or laying on the desk?
 
Archer
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Thank you for the reply. Do you have a theory why it doesn’t happen when the watch is worn or laying on the desk?

Excess amplitude is most likely to happen at full wind, so when the winder is winding it all the time, this is when it will happen...
 
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Archer Archer
Excess amplitude is most likely to happen at full wind, so when the winder is winding it all the time, this is when it will happen...
Thank you
I added pictures of the watch on the timegrapher. The amplitude and accuracy varies with the angle of the watch. I don’t know whether this is normal.
 
Archer
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Thank you
I added pictures of the watch on the timegrapher. The amplitude and accuracy varies with the angle of the watch. I don’t know whether this is normal.

Yes, it’s normal. Note that your machine will not read the amplitude correctly on a co-axial watch. The machine requires special programming for that.
 
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Archer Archer
Yes, it’s normal. Note that your machine will not read the amplitude correctly on a co-axial watch. The machine requires special programming for that.
Thank you. But you think this rebanking issue is a defect, right?
I just purchased this watch from a “reputable” grey market dealer as “unworn” with original box and papers. Should I return it?
IMG_4557.jpeg
 
Archer
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A watch that runs fine other than on the winder...if you feel that warrants a return, then that’s up to you.
 
Evitzee
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If the sales agreement allows you to return the watch within a certain period of time than you have to decide what to do. But I don't think they would accept a return because of a 'it doesn't wind well on a winder but works fine on the wrist' claim. If the watch works as intended on your wrist than there is nothing wrong with it.
 
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