Forums Latest Members

An interesting mutation - bi-color A 783

  1. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 11, 2015

    Posts
    6,713
    Likes
    18,259
    Here's a twist I haven't seen before. I initially mistook it for a franken with an A 386 dial, but it ain't. It is a common observation that the blue paint Zenith used on the early Primero subdials tends to be fragile. It occasionally flakes off revealing the bronze metal color underneath. This guy has tried to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse by meticulously cleaning the blue paint off of two of three subdails.

    3179380.jpg

    https://www.chrono24.com/en/zenith/...id3179380.htm?id=3179380&picnum=0&tab=details
     
    MMMD likes this.
  2. MMMD unaffiliated curmudgeonly absurdist & polyologist Mar 11, 2015

    Posts
    4,642
    Likes
    31,001
    Interesting. Looks like I've got a little work to do on my Espada.
     
  3. woodwkr2 Mar 11, 2015

    Posts
    1,366
    Likes
    819
    Excellent observation and explanation. Duly noted and added to the toolbox.
     
  4. papaebetu Mar 11, 2015

    Posts
    418
    Likes
    886
    Many dials in Espada case, got a big problem for the humidity as the inner scale (rehaut)

    GIGI
     
    Edited Mar 12, 2015
  5. mbirtch Mar 15, 2015

    Posts
    58
    Likes
    5
    chron24 description is wrong model-isn't Espada moonphased?
     
  6. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 15, 2015

    Posts
    6,713
    Likes
    18,259
    Yes correct.
     
  7. Marcob11 Sep 30, 2016

    Posts
    5
    Likes
    1
    Hi first of all I apologize for my written English.
    I'm italian.
    I have a question do you mean that this mutation is not natural and was made on purpose from one of the previous owners of this watch?
    You called the thread :
    An interesting mutation - bi-color A 783
    I own the watch and what you say it is impossible to make artificially...
    Clearly impossible to take of the blue of the subdials without damaging also the numbers and the indexes of the subdials themselves...
    I post now a photo of the watch that clearly shows what I say.
    Thanks

     
    IMG_7434.JPG
  8. WatchVaultNYC Sep 30, 2016

    Posts
    3,719
    Likes
    4,189
    What a minute, I've seen several of these. So it's not a natural ocurrence? Or was I seeing the same watch multiple times?
     
  9. Marcob11 Sep 30, 2016

    Posts
    5
    Likes
    1
    There are two separate aspects that I like to underline...
    The first is that as written above to make this artificially is not possible at least on mine as it is clearly demonstrated from the photo I posted and my explanation.
    The second is that from the moment I purchased the watch I tried to find online another one without success... Or to say it better I found online other photos but always reproducing the same watch... Mine...
    I've actually opened various threads in important forums in Italy to search a sibling of mine...
    And also this one opened from an expert over 2 years ago is speaking of mine... I purchased mine from that dealer that was mentioned in the initial post...
    I'm curious to see if others will appear...
    Thanks
     
    Edited Sep 30, 2016
  10. Marcob11 Oct 1, 2016

    Posts
    5
    Likes
    1
    I would like to add an important information that I discovered today...
    Mr. LouS has a well ranked page in which provide several interesting information regarding Zenith el primero earlier edition :
    http://thoughts.onthedash.com/thoughts/el-primero-cheat-sheet/
    I found this page very interesting and I noticed that in various posts many refer to that page as a source for their knowledge on those early models..
    Well the photo here is taken from that page...
    It shows a reference a384 with an identical mutation of mine... In which the bronze of the metal underneath is revealed and like in mine maintaining intact the numbers and indexes white in the sub dials... This simply to show that also if extremely rarely this mutation happens...
     
    IMG_8420.JPG
  11. Marcob11 Oct 1, 2016

    Posts
    5
    Likes
    1
    To complete my IMHO I add what follow...
    I don't agree with your theory, I don't know of any brands that at the time in which the first "panda dials" appeared in the market produced the variation "tropical"...
    I copy and paste from this page that says alot of the history of "Panda dials"

    https://thespringbar.com/blogs/guides/collectors-guide-to-breitling-top-time

    From the page I extrapolated the part interesting for our topic

    "The term “panda” refers to watches having a silver main dial and black sub dials. This color combination and the placement of the sub dials create a look that recalls that of a panda, and is the most likely the reason behind its name. A variant of the panda dial called “reverse panda” features a black main dial and white sub dials. Another variation is known as the “Panda bear” or “true panda”, with a white main dial and black sub dials [22,25].

    Among the three, the reverse panda appears to have come first, followed by the panda bear or true panda and then the panda. It is believed that Breitling was the first to introduce the reverse panda style in 1957 with its SuperOcean Chronograph Ref. 807. This was followed by its AVI Co-Pilot Ref. 765 which entered the market in the early 1960s. TAG Heuer and Rolex followed suit, with the former releasing its Autavia in 1962 and the latter launching its Cosmograph in 1963. During the same year, Breitling’s popular Navitimer Ref. 806 embraced the reverse panda design as well [22].

    However, when it came to the true pandas, Rolex took the lead, releasing its Cosmograph Daytona Ref. 6239 in 1963. Breitling’s true panda hit the market in 1966, the TAG Heuer Carrera launched in 1968, and the Zenith El Primero A384 released in 1969. Zenith also released the first tri-color panda Ref. A386 in the same year [22].

    For its Top Time series, in particular, Breitling produced reverse pandas when the line released in 1964. True pandas were only introduced in 1966 [22]."

    Told this I now want to show mine that is a reference A783 in which the mutation happened in only two of the three sub dials...
    Are you still convinced that they were produced also with this combination of colours....?
     
    bassem abadan likes this.
  12. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Oct 1, 2016

    Posts
    7,384
    Likes
    20,738
    Hi, I know absolutely nothing about those chronographs and I have no connection to any of the parties in this discussion, but I find the result very pretty in the OP watch, whatever the cause was.
    So the formula "turning a silk purse out of a sow's ear" doesn't ring quite true to me because the true meaning of the proverb is that one cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear -- whereas here if any intentional activity was involved, to my admittedly untrained eye it looks like "mission accomplished" instead of "mission impossible".
    Best regards,
    S
     
    Matty01 likes this.