An argument for a higher-perceived status of the Franken/custom watch…

M'Bob · Oct 6, 2023

Full disclaimer: what I’m about to say does in fact take into account that watch get-togethers are primarily social events - the watches are secondary. In spite of this:

I reviewed what was on the wrists of most participants at the Speedy Tuesday event in Tokyo, and the majority of them were beautiful, high-end Speedmasters. That we’ve all seen before.

In the 1960’s in America, there was a craze of custom cars, and George Barris could certainly be counted as one of the top-tier participants. He made custom cars for film, television, and private customers. Like with watches, while many well-heeled car buyers could afford the most expensive, exclusive automobiles, they very well could see a neighbor driving something very close. There was nothing particularly creative or unique about that.

George flexed his creative muscles, and came up with cars that stretched the imagination. You may not find every rendering suits your aesthetic judgment, but you can be sure it was different, and made you look at cars in a new and different way.

To wit: it can be fun with watches, to break out of the period- correct mold, and mix and match parts to create something different and fun to look at.

Here’s my custom FOIS.

Brown dial, original flat-link, and 1863 movement.

Let’s see yours!

timjohn · Oct 6, 2023

I suspect that many forum members have headed out back to polish their pitchforks, but I'm with you.

I find it a bit odd that in an age where we are supposed to be celebrating our individuality and authoring our own journey -- or whatever the current jargon is -- we search out watches that are not only as standard as humanly possible ("correct") but have as little evidence as possible of being worn and developing their own character.

i.e. These watches are as perfect a representation of someone else's vision of the perfect watch as possible.

Standardisation was a necessity last century, but there is no excuse for manufacturers today not to allow their customers to design their own watch, especially at the high end. At the lower end, the modding scene is thriving, but again it's a bit odd that most mods seem to try to look like a high end watch rather than the modder's own vision of the watch they want.

M'Bob · Oct 6, 2023

timjohn
I suspect that many forum members have headed out back to polish their pitchforks, but I'm with you.

I find it a bit odd that in an age where we are supposed to be celebrating our individuality and authoring our own journey -- or whatever the current jargon is -- we search out watches that are not only as standard as humanly possible ("correct") but have as little evidence as possible of being worn and developing their own character.

i.e. These watches are as perfect a representation of someone else's vision of the perfect watch as possible.

Standardisation was a necessity last century, but there is no excuse for manufacturers today not to allow their customers to design their own watch, especially at the high end. At the lower end, the modding scene is thriving, but again it's a bit odd that most mods seem to try to look like a high end watch rather than the modder's own vision of the watch they want.

Very well said, thanks.

itsjustausername · Oct 6, 2023

there are outfits like Bamford, who seem to have made a full business out of PVD coating everything black, but generally there's a really strong resistance/headwind for this notion in the watch scene. I'm with you though... adding a degree of individuality to an item as personal as a watch sounds like fun

Spruce · Oct 6, 2023

Yep, I posted my Longines today on WRUW complete with a comfortable BoR bracelet, which is an Omega replica bracelet from ETSY 😀

Zman4eva · Oct 6, 2023

Every collection group has their own quirks and I think this move for wanting originality is a fairly recent development. I read that not too long ago it was expected to have the dial refinished and the case polished if the watch goes in for a service. Today, those things will not happen unless specifically requested.

I do agree with the sentiment that modding is a cool side of watches and should be a bigger part of the watch world (and not just confined to the Seikos). If a watch is completely beat up, why not modify, replace parts, refinish dial, and make other adjustments or customizations? I see this similar to how rusted cars are replaced, sanded or new metal welded as a replacement, engines are replaced, etc. I do love those Netflix shows!

I guess the biggest hurdle is the economic incentives and the marketplace. Even fair or poor condition vintage Speedmaster in original condition would fetch a higher price than a polished one. There's just no market for modded vintage watches.

M'Bob · Oct 6, 2023

Zman4eva
I guess the biggest hurdle is the economic incentives and the marketplace. Even fair or poor condition vintage Speedmaster in original condition would fetch a higher price than a polished one. There's just no market for modded vintage watches

Agreed; it has to be a labor of love, suiting one’s individual tastes and with the knowledge that it might not be financially sensible.

My watch above was a combination of a few watches, so completely unwise if just the cost was factored in.

pdxleaf · Oct 6, 2023

I've probably over-shared this, but it fits your thread.
(apologies to anyone who says "oh, not again!")

I have been looking at Seiko mods. There are some crazy nice mods. @STANDY has a nice one, which introduced me to the Seiko mod concept.

Evitzee · Oct 6, 2023

The classic Speedmaster has been in production for close to 70 years with just a couple of case shapes (straight or twisted lugs), and a relatively small number of movements (321, 861, 1861, 1863, 1866, 3861), but with a mind boggling number of dials and backs which will generally fit all of the movements and cases. It's a platform that begs to be modified, yet we are currently in the mindset that any deviation from how it left the factory is a negative, no touching of the dial, hands, back, case, it has to be all original. This is a relatively new position and will probably change in the future as there are only so many untouched, unmolested watches out there. We know there has been fiddling in this area of 'originality' at the highest levels, so how many other ones are out there being flogged as all original and an 'investment' piece?

I have no issues with modified watches, it's part of the hobby and I have a couple of them. I'll just post one here that was modded by Adam Lewis a couple of years ago. This watch started as a 3575.20.00 around 2003, it has one of the great Speedmaster dials, imo, an ecru (beige) shade with moon and date (1866 movement). It had a white gold bezel and blue, Broad Arrow hands. Nice, but I thought it was always a bit stuffy looking. Adam redid the case, filling in any dents and scratches and refinishing the case back to new condition. He replaced the hands with the blue baton set that came on the white gold model, and added a blue Gemini 4 bezel and sapphire back. Obviously the movement was completely overhauled and I added a blue leather strap from Genteel. For me this watch is more attractive than the original and more wearable. It can always be returned to its original state but I see no reason why anyone would want to do so. It's all personal.

Fallout Boy · Oct 6, 2023

the times they are a changin 😁 DYLAN

Zman4eva · Oct 6, 2023

Evitzee
The classic Speedmaster has been in production for close to 70 years with just a couple of case shapes (straight or twisted lugs), and a relatively small number of movements (321, 861, 1861, 1863, 1866, 3861), but with a mind boggling number of dials and backs which will generally fit all of the movements and cases. It's a platform that begs to be modified, yet we are currently in the mindset that any deviation from how it left the factory is a negative, no touching of the dial, hands, back, case, it has to be all original. This is a relatively new position and will probably change in the future as there are only so many untouched, unmolested watches out there. We know there has been fiddling in this area of 'originality' at the highest levels, so how many other ones are out there being flogged as all original and an 'investment' piece?

I have no issues with modified watches, it's part of the hobby and I have a couple of them. I'll just post one here that was modded by Adam Lewis a couple of years ago. This watch started as a 3575.20.00 around 2003, it has one of the great Speedmaster dials, imo, an ecru (beige) shade with moon and date (1866 movement). It had a white gold bezel and blue, Broad Arrow hands. Nice, but I thought it was always a bit stuffy looking. Adam redid the case, filling in any dents and scratches and refinishing the case back to new condition. He replaced the hands with the blue baton set that came on the white gold model, and added a blue Gemini 4 bezel and sapphire back. Obviously the movement was completely overhauled and I added a blue leather strap from Genteel. For me this watch is more attractive than the original and more wearable. It can always be returned to its original state but I see no reason why anyone would want to do so. It's all personal.

Your modded Speedy is beautiful. I love the new hands and bezel. That strap is also a perfect complement to the blue theme.

ErichKeane · Oct 6, 2023

IMO, as long as it is properly disclosed when put up for sale, any customization is your business.

Most of the ones I've seen (Evitzee's included) are fantastic! I adore a lot of the clever mods and wish more folks would do it.

sxl2004 · Oct 6, 2023

321 baby… 😎😁

Paedipod · Oct 6, 2023

Lewis fabricated....321 inside

and some other dearly departed non-factory friends

M'Bob · Oct 6, 2023

Paedipod
Lewis fabricated....321 inside

and some other dearly departed non-factory friends

Really nice.

Here’s my other:

Next to its buddy:

PlogTinTin · Oct 6, 2023

M'Bob
Full disclaimer: what I’m about to say does in fact take into account that watch get-togethers are primarily social events - the watches are secondary. In spite of this:

I reviewed what was on the wrists of most participants at the Speedy Tuesday event in Tokyo, and the majority of them were beautiful, high-end Speedmasters. That we’ve all seen before.

In the 1960’s in America, there was a craze of custom cars, and George Barris could certainly be counted as one of the top-tier participants. He made custom cars for film, television, and private customers. Like with watches, while many well-heeled car buyers could afford the most expensive, exclusive automobiles, they very well could see a neighbor driving something very close. There was nothing particularly creative or unique about that.

George flexed his creative muscles, and came up with cars that stretched the imagination. You may not find every rendering suits your aesthetic judgment, but you can be sure it was different, and made you look at cars in a new and different way.

To wit: it can be fun with watches, to break out of the period- correct mold, and mix and match parts to create something different and fun to look at.

Here’s my custom FOIS.

Brown dial, original flat-link, and 1863 movement.

Let’s see yours!

Which Speedy from the event would you say is your favorite?

so far my only modding has been with some custom straps 😀

machamp6650 · Oct 6, 2023

Good argument. I really enjoy seeing how people get creative with speedies, and how their vision of what they want in a watch compares to the official offerings. Or just seeing how fun / crazy things get when people throw together what they have in spare parts!

Would be great to see more. Here's my contribution, the smurfmaster:

Davidt · Oct 7, 2023

I lteqlly like a lot of the customised watches, especially some of the examples in this thread from Lewis WC.

But, just a couple of counter arguments to play devils advocate.

timjohn
I find it a bit odd that in an age where we are supposed to be celebrating our individuality and authoring our own journey -- or whatever the current jargon is -- we search out watches that are not only as standard as humanly possible ("correct") but have as little evidence as possible of being worn and developing their own character.
.

1. If buyers searched out an already customised watch to buy, that would still be someone else’s vision and design.

2. it feels a bit like modded cars to me. There are some people who can modify and the result looks great, better than factory. I’ve got a mate who buys a car, mods it over a few years then sells it and starts again. The results are really impressive.
However, the vast majority of modded cars look like they were designed by a 12 year old, Have no balance of cohesion and look utter shite. I’m left thinking, “wow, you’ve ruined a really nice Audi S4 there”.
A lot of the modded watches in general, even from places like Bamford, fall into this category for me.

3. like any collectible, most people want the archetype, especially when standard practise has been to replace and refinish over the years, meaning good condition, factory original examples are hard to find.

4. re Speedmasters, has anyone seen a mod they prefer over the original? I’d add limited editions to that as well. I like the ST1 and a couple of others, but if I had to keep one it would be the original.
there’s also a huge number of LE Speedies meaning many combinations one might have thought up have already been created. Parts supply also severely limits modding as there are no decent aftermarket dials etc that I’m aware of.

pascs · Oct 7, 2023

I definitely have a few modded Speedmasters, and actually an even higher number of modded watches based around the Seiko divers

Some standard and some modded in this group 😁

Eve · Oct 7, 2023

I only have one moded Speedy right now, its a FOIS with the modern 321 EdWhite Dial, Seahorse caseback and a vintage crown.
I really like the standard reedition FOIS, however a few things bugged me about this reissue. The caseback is very uncomfortable for my skin and the applied Omego Logo is a modern one.
If i could afford the original vintage one, i would have gone this route. This is not a perfect subsitution for vintage watch though as everything looks too clean. But i like the advantages for everyday use, like the lume for reading at night.

Obviously i keep the original parts juat in case i want to put it back to original state.

An argument for a higher-perceived status of the Franken/custom watch…

M'Bob

timjohn

M'Bob

itsjustausername

Spruce

Zman4eva

M'Bob

pdxleaf

Evitzee

Fallout Boy

Zman4eva

ErichKeane

sxl2004

Paedipod

M'Bob

PlogTinTin

machamp6650

Davidt

pascs

Eve

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