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Amateur adventures with a Landeron 48

  1. ChrisN Apr 19, 2015

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    Hi Guys

    After finishing my wife's baby Seamaster in early January, I decided it was time to have a go at a Chronograph to develop my amateur watch tinkering abilities. First time with a chrono so anticipated it would take some time for the chrono part but of course the base movement would be very similar to all the other movements I've worked on so pretty quick to do. Famous last words.

    Bought a "Giroxa" which comes with a Landeron 48. Not a bad place to start, I understand. It had a few faults: huge 4.0 ms beat error; chronograph second hand resetting to random locations; minute counter sometimes jumping one minute when the counter started; watch stopping sometimes when chrono engaged.

    Well teardown produced a bit of a surprise as the hairspring was a long way out of true. This is post cleaning and with just Incablocs and balance installed on the plate. It's meant to be parallel to the plate....
    chrono1.jpg

    It was deformed close to the stud and after some effort I managed to get it like this and am quite surprised at how my hairspring manipulation has gone. Clearly channelling the force of true watchmakers...
    chrono2.jpg
    You can also see that the spring is not brilliantly installed and there is a long tail to the right of the stud.
    chrono4.jpg

    It's parallel now but there is still a slight dish however, move on and build the base movement. Checked with Al (thanks!) who recommended moving the stud down even further than I had. Now it's looking great and installed, it shows huge amplitude with a lift angle of 42 degrees so on to fix the beat error by turning the collet on the balance.
    chrono3.jpg

    This is a bit hit and miss but after more advice from Al, three tries in and have 0.5-1.0 ms in five positions. The force is strong in me now and am operating above all normal levels so decide I should also trim that excess hairspring. Of course, all I need to do is remove the stud from the cock and trim it but my clarity of vision is such that I choose to remove the pin that holds the hairspring to the stud, trim the hairspring and reinstall it in the stud. Yes, these pins are tiny but how hard can this be with my new found ability? Cutting a long story with much swearing (in two languages) short, I eventually have the movement running again.

    Now the watch is built, running well. The chrono part was interesting but not too difficult although I may have been a little generous with the grease. Some depthing adjustments required to solve the original problems but all seemed logical. It's no Vacheron but it is the first chrono I have serviced so will get some wrist time. Must shorten the new pushers.
    final build.jpg

    So for the other amateur tinkerers, how do you install the spring and pin in the stud? Short answer is try, try, try again until you damage the spring, go to the internet and buy a running L248 movement and take from that the complete balance.... That hairspring pin was a bridge too far for me. Hell, it's about 0.25 mm in diameter and needs to be pressed into the stud hole while holding the spring in place. Will need Yoda (or Al) in attendance before trying that again! Realised later that when you buy a hairspring, it usually comes with a stud attached...

    Cheers, Chris
     
    TexasKevin, jordn, Stewart H and 4 others like this.
  2. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Apr 19, 2015

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    Excellent Chris.

    Now you know there is nothing to fear, it's on to an 861.
     
  3. ChrisN Apr 19, 2015

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    Yes, this simple chronograph mechanism is fairly easy to understand and I built/lubricated it without the Landeron manual or Asemblograf. This meant I had to be sure I understood what each part did and how the eccentrics would change depthing. Then read both manuals and checked what I had done and then adjusted the eccentrics to solve it's problems. Quite interesting how they achieved these things.

    Looking to probably do a Valjoux next and then my 865. Eventually my 1861. Also have an AS1475 alarm to do and a Felsa 693 Bidynator TDMP as these are also interesting complications so will mix those in;)

    Cheers, Chris
     
  4. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Apr 19, 2015

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    You've got the bug :thumbsup:

    My car is in for a major service tomorrow. Do you want to pop round to HR Owen and have a bash at that too?
     
  5. ChrisN Apr 19, 2015

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    I'm game, as long as there are no hairsprings involved...
     
  6. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 20, 2015

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    Nice work Chris. Glad I was able to offer some assistance and encouragement along the way.

    Balance springs are the thing that get most hobbyist watchmakers. Even having the ability to make bends of the right amount on balance springs of all different strengths, materials, thicknesses is really the easy part (even though that is far from easy). Knowing where to bend to correct what fault can be the tough part. Sometimes a spring that looks like it has several bends that need correcting can often have just one. Being able to see that is not easy at first, and it takes a lot time working on these to get the hang of it.

    The old saying "measure twice, cut once" is the kind of thing you need to have in mind working on these. Study, study, study, and when you think you know where to bend, study some more.

    Cheers, Al
     
    ChrisN and Stewart H like this.
  7. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 20, 2015

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    Hey Chris, sorry for the newb question, but I was wondering how you started learning this fine art..? Book? Course? Straight up experimentation? I've been itching to get started, but not sure how best to jump in - without wasting too much time and money on false starts.. any tips?
     
  8. ChrisN Apr 20, 2015

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    I pretty new at this, less than 18 months so this may not be the recommended way. Expect others to jump in with slightly different suggestions!

    1. Go to Kindle and spend $10 or so on "Practical Watch Repairing" by Donald De Carle. Start reading and it will make some sense but is a bit dry so you will soon need to buy a movement so that you can understand it. Don't worry if you scan it initially as you are mainly getting orientation.

    2. Open up your 321 Speedmaster and get going! No, seriously, start with a big manual movement. Have a look at this post:
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/ever-wondered-what-50-year-old-grease-looks-like.23194/#post-252942

    3. First teardown following De Carle. You will need minimum tools as follows:
    a. The ETA manual, available for free. Here's a picture extract showing all the parts except for the few parts of the Keyless works. It even shows you the assembly order and the oils to use.
    6497 train.jpg
    b. Tool list.
    Movement holder (Bergeon 4040?)
    Blower
    Set of 5 screwdrivers
    Set of tweezers
    A 3" focal length eyeglass
    A 1.5" focal length eyeglass
    An eyeglass holder (basically a loop of wire to go over the head)
    A watchmakers green mat.
    Table and light (hope you already have these:D)
    To take it apart to the level I'm saying, that's it. Opening and closing barrels not included. Buy the best tools in your budget. Generally, Bergeon are a relatively safe bet for reasonable quality but not always (sorry, there is an awful lot in tools). You'll also want some surgical style gloves to keep the oil from your fingers off the movement.

    4. So, we don't just pull it all apart, we take off one piece and work out what it does and then read De Carle for that part. Hopefully, it soon becomes clear. This part can take a while but it becomes much clearer when you have the parts in hand.

    That would get you going to understand how a simple manual wind works. I would then try and reassemble it (don't open the barrel this time) and see if it still works.Then you can see if this is really for you as I imagine some people give in at this point. It's quite fiddly and can be frustrating. There's a lot of reading and taking photos of everything before you remove it. Remember, I'm just an amateur so this is basically the way I started. It may not be a recommended way!

    Cheers, Chris
     
    Edited Apr 20, 2015
  9. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Apr 20, 2015

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    Thanks Chris! did you forget a picture of the tools or something?

    I'm in Canada, but I'm sure i can find what i need (once I know what i need.. ;)). I have also looked at what's included in some of the online watch making courses in terms of tools, so I have a fairly good idea.

    thanks for the reply!
     
  10. ChrisN Apr 20, 2015

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    Ah, I think we are cross posting!

    The tool list to strip and reassemble is quite small. Will have a look on Cousins. Have not finished the above post yet!